00:00
People like try to get everything right before they start their business. And as soon as you start, something's gonna come up. You just gotta start, you know? And my thing is like, fail fast. Cause you know, I don't want to spend five years putting this together and then I do like, I do this. I'm gonna get in like, oh, I hate this and get out. You know mean? Like, I say that all the time. I'm like, I'd rather.
When I start working with a client, I'm like, okay, I don't want perfection. I want you to have as many failures as possible right now. The key is take those, implement them, learn from it, and keep going. The faster you do that, the faster you'll take off. 100%, I love that. Either way, you'll quit, and then you can do something. But you know, but it's true. Like you might find it's not for you.
You know what I mean? Like if you fail, fail, fail, you're like, oh my gosh, I hate this. I don't love doing this. You know? Fail fast for both ways because then you could do something else you love. Yeah. Yeah. I love it. That's not what I wanted you to say. I'm like, I'm not encouraging people to quit. But no, no, you're right. You're 100% right.
01:10
My guest this week is the relentlessly charming, Dawn Fitch. Dawn is a graphic artist by trade, whose life took a turn when she became sick with an autoimmune disease. She didn't know what was happening at the time.
But in an effort to experience some relief from her symptoms, she began a journey of paying close attention to what was going into her body, as well as what was going onto her body. When she discovered some of the harmful chemicals found in her everyday favorite skincare products, it didn't take long before she started making her own. And that's how POOKA, pure and simple, was born, almost 20 years ago, on her kitchen stove.
This is a remarkable story of the magic that is possible when life throws you a curveball and you choose to get an ownership.
02:16
Okay, so we've obviously known each other for years now. Last time we spoke, we were at Sony, right? You had a whole different career. You were a graphic artist. And it sounds like your story with Pooka had already begun, your journey, right? So let's go back to the beginning and kind of walk me through the journey and how you ended up, the idea for the company. Gotcha.
Yeah, so that was in, it was actually before our Sony times that I was working in the city and just live my best life. And I was working on 34th street and he always have to think, well, look, I'm from Jersey. So when we get on the subway, we have theme music and we walk in like we're the city. So we had our theme music and I was; it was just a really good day. The sun was on my face and I just started to feel a little twinkle in my legs. And I was like, like my legs are going to sleep.
And within seconds, I went numb from the waist down, like totally paralyzed. Could not feel my legs, feet. You want to talk about a scary experience? And I was just like, and thank God I was with a friend. So he kind of just pushed me over and I leaned against the wall. And I didn't even know, I was just like, I can't feel my legs. So he went into the store owner, they called the ambulance. This is on 34th Street. We were right by Empire State Building, like down by Fifth Avenue.
And they called the ambulance and I went to the hospital and that began like, I don't know, maybe a seven, eight year journey of trying to figure out what was wrong with me. And yeah, just doctors, doctors, and they just couldn't figure it. Now, this was also in the, that was in the nineties. I mean, I don't know how we were, we're only both 30. So I don't know how we were even really here. Yeah. I don't understand.
But you know, like, all they did was they sent me home and they were like, follow up with your doctor because by that time the feeling had come back. So I started going to doctor after doctor and I had so many tests and they could not figure out what it was. So they really didn't give me any medication and they kept just telling me to go home. You're healthy, go home. But I was like, I don't feel good and I'm sick. I was getting like increasingly tired, fatigued, just tingly. It was just, I was just sick. So my parents were like, you're gonna keep going. So I really tried to manage my own healthcare and just not stop going to the doctors.
04:35
And I would get diagnoses here and there. Oh, you have fibromyalgia. Oh, you have this or you have chronic fatigue syndrome or you have hypoglycemia. OK. And everything they would give me. I'm like, OK, got it. Like I didn't really take the medication, but I would look up what I needed to do to fix that symptom. And I'd feel better for a little while. And then I was like, that's not it, because then I would feel bad again. So I really started digging around into aromatherapy.
Like that was for feeling better and just like for the mind, like just lavender and burning eucalyptus and stuff, just because I wanted to mentally try to feel a little better. And I found a little shop, a little shop in the city, I can't even remember what the name it is now, and I used to go in there and visit that lady every day and buy some essential oils. And I started feeling a little bit better. I was like, okay, essential oils.
Then I read an article about your skin and your skin is the largest organ. What you put on your skin goes into your system. So I was like, all right, well, if I'm cleaning out the inside, I'm going to clean out the outside too. Because I was a bath and body junkie. Like I would slather anything on my skin. Oh, it smells good. And just so once I started doing all this research because I was sick, I was like, what the heck are these ingredients? And I was like, you do not need all of this to moisturize your skin.
And I don't even know if I had that wherewithal at that point. I just was like, don't put anything in your system that you can't eat right now. So I just started doing that and I started to feel better. And then I became the annoying family member. Oh my God, you're going to put that on? You don't use lavender. They’re like, six months ago, you weren't even using lavender. Okay, so I was like, okay. But I was getting results and I wanted them to feel better. I was like, I'm feeling better. I want them to feel good. And I was just reading about petroleum jelly and stuff we put on our skin.
I was like, we can't do this anymore, guys. So I mean, I went to school for graphic design and the graphic artist in me was like, look, I started making bottles and potions and I was like, ah, put a little label on it. I was like, all right, so I'm gonna, my mom, when we were little called us her pookalitas. We don't, we still like, what is that? But it was a term of endearment. We were like, where did you even get that from? She was like, I don't really know. But you fall down, where's my pookalitas? And we were like, ah. So I wanted to put that on the label and I just couldn't fit it. So I just had all these little bottles of POOKA.
06:45
And I always tell people, I was like, I do not cook, Carrie, like not like a lick.
I blend, but I do not cook. But I tell people if you come to my house, you're not going to eat, but you're going to be moisturized. OK, you're skin is going to be good and you will be moisturized. So I mean, I would have shea butter, the stove, castile soap, and they were like, this stuff is everywhere. So my friends are like, look, you're making all this stuff. Make more of it. And let's go to a festival. Jersey has a festival, PNC Art Center, which actually I think is closed.
That festival clothes. It was an African festival and they're like, let's get a table. Let's go. I was like, all right, let's go. But in my mind, I was like, I don't want to go to this thing. I was like, but I was like, but I might sell something. And there were these shoes that I wanted to see, like the simple things that you always think simple things you always want. People are going to be entrepreneurs. Like, no, I want to choose. I want to choose. I want to wear shoes. They're like, oh, well, that's not an inspirational story. I'm like, no. My dad was not. Then I tried to clean it up. My dad was an entrepreneur and blah, blah, blah.
And Gary, I was like, let me clean this story up, make myself a little more inspirational. I think wanting shoes is just as good a reason as any. 100%. Thank you. Thank you. So we set that little table up and we would.
I was so nervous, I was just like, I made this on my stove and this was not, it wasn't supposed to be a business. I was just like, people are not gonna buy some whole makes up. So I hid by the bathroom, like the bathroom was down around the corner. So I was like watching and looking, I would come to the table a little bit, as soon as people would come I would float off. I didn't want any parts of it. I was like, I don't know what they're gonna say. And my friends and family, they sold my little stuff. We sold the entire table. And we were like, I think we just started a business. And that's pretty much how the business started.
08:37
That was a long answer, sorry. No, that is an amazing, amazing story. And I'm really present to just being a yes. Just like being a yes, like opportunity showing up. Because I feel like sometimes the universe, God, spirit, like whatever you believe in, intuition just starts to give you these messages. And you're like, no, no, no. But you're like, OK, OK. Oh, OK, let's go. Let's go for it.
So you're, it's beautiful. Okay. I follow the breadcrumbs. Like, oh, okay, next. Yes, yes, yes. But that's, no, but that's so key because I feel like we get those breadcrumbs all the time and we don't always trust ourselves to follow them. I don't know if it's where we are in life. Like we're so focused on like, okay, gotta do what I'm doing, pay my bills. Like we get so into our routine.
Like I just started taking full on drum lessons, like whole set drum lessons. I'm the oldest lady there. When I got there, they were like, everybody make sure your parents sign into the portal. I was like, well, let me call my 83 year old mother, like, Ma, I need you to sign into this portal for me, mom, because I'm an old lady taking drum classes.
But that was a yes, because I started like, look, family members have passed. Life is getting serious. It is serious. But on the flip side, I was just like, oh, I've always wanted to play drums. And instantly, I asked myself, so why haven't you? The classes are like $30. Take a drum class. So I have been taking drum lessons for the last month.
And when I have my recital, me and the other eight year olds, you're going to come, Gary. I would love to. It's about being. Yes. Like, say yes. Try stuff like you might love it. You might not. But like life is here to try things. Say yes. I love that. Say yes. Yes. Yes. Yeah. So let's talk about let's go back to that point in the story. So you realize you have something in that moment like.
10:40
What was next in terms of getting things going and kicking off the business? What did you think about next? Well, at that point, we were like, oh my gosh, we started a business. And you got to remember, this is 2000. So websites relatively new. You know what I mean? There was no Facebook. Oh my god, so old. So there was no social media. Yeah, was MySpace times, right? Yes, there MySpace and things like that.
Or even before that, yeah. Right, and even that way, even those things weren't used the way we're using them now. Yeah. So you wanted to find somebody, you were still picking up a phone book. So we were like, all right, how do we get the word out about this business now? And or what do we even do next? So I did put up a website, but I was like, all right, we have to go grassroots.
So we started calling friends and calling family and looking for other festivals like that to do. And like one would lead to the next one. And then somebody's like, I'll host a party for you at my house. So we did like two years worth of POOKA parties. Like we dragged all this stuff to people's houses and we played games and like we almost set up our own little mini Mary Kay type of business. It's so different the way businesses are done now.
It's a while get into that later how it's a pro and a con for me. But we just started building the business like that. And it's funny because I was still I had left Sony at that point. This was in 2000. I had left Sony and I had gotten a job at American Express designing credit cards. What you have seen in American Express card? What do you actually design on?
I was like but the money was good. So I went over there and that American Express money is good. I had an American Express design job once too. I was like, let's move the name on this side. Yeah, that's nice. So I, they actually, I was there for six months and they had massive layoffs. So I was, let me couple other girls last people in gone.
12:38
So at this point now I'm like, all right, I'm out here. And I was like, well, I turned it when I was like, all right, you're doing these oils and stuff. Let's see if this actually takes off. So I was still making everything out of my home, in my apartment, without an internet, just a telephone, cell phone, and just calling people and collecting a mailing list. Because we knew we needed email addresses. So everywhere we went, let's get email addresses. I didn't even use them then.
But thank God we're the werewolf all to know that we're gonna need these email addresses. So it was just totally grassroots until we got our very first retail location. And that freaking story, I don't wanna say freaking on your podcast. I'm sorry. You can say freaking. We've got the beat function, don't worry. You can say. I always tell my guests.
Just be yourself, I'll take care of it on my end. See the things corny people are worried about? I don't want to see freaking on your politics, right? So, look, I wasn't working at that time because now I'm laid off. And I'm like, all right, I'm going do this business. But that's not enough. I had to be able to support myself. So hats off to people who leave their jobs to start their business. I was already, like, I was out of work. Like, my thing came down the road when I was offered a job.
But I was like, I gotta get a job. And this is the breadcrumbs we talking about. I was like, I gotta get a job. So I was like, all right, I'll get a job. So a friend brought me to another place, a new restaurant, a new rib joint. At that point, I had vegetarian, I needed meat. I was like, look at me over here slinging ribs. I was like, okay, but I'm gonna do what I gotta do. So I worked with this guy, it was his restaurant. The owner's such a nice guy. So I worked there probably for like a year and a half.
And all I did was, I mean, I didn't complain, but I shared my story. Like, I think everything about POOKA is me, like, sharing the story and just telling them what's happening and getting mentorship from him. And he was like, amazing. And he was like, da, da, da. We would talk, da, da. So a year and a half in, we're still doing these parties. I mean, it's enough to maintain me with the job that I have from him, but I was like, it's not really going anywhere. So he decides he's opening up a catering space, beautiful catering space right next door.
14:44
And I was like, oh, this is really nice. Now, because I've been taught porn, this business down this man's ear for a year and a half, he was like, you know what? He said, I'm not using the space in the morning or during the day. He's like, if you want to use this for a store, you're welcome to it. And he walked out. I was like, did I just land a suite? And this is in like I'm in Jersey. It was in Montclair on Bloomfield Avenue, which is hot realty. And this man was like, oh, I think he said he was going to charge me $400 a month, Gary. And every month he forgot to ask me for the money.
Oh, thank God for bad memories.
So that is how we landed into our first retail place. But I always say that's a pride, like I have a lot of pride to the side moments. We talked about something before. And going to sling ribs, like entrepreneurship is not always sexy. You gotta, if this is your dream and you wanna do it, sometimes you have to do those other things that you don't wanna do. No, but you're pointing to a really beautiful lesson that we should stop on because I do think, especially now, everyone thinks that it's just sexy.
Everyone thinks like Instagram just makes it so that it's like everything is flashy, everything. And it's like, no, there is like opportunities that when you humble yourself and use them to build that relationship, use them to learn, cause you can learn from anything. You can learn, I mean, look at you, you're freaking selling ribs at that point. Like not even anything that you eat.
But look at all the things that came from it and all the lessons, all the connections, all the, I love it, I love it. There's such a valuable lesson there. So we're now rock and rolling in our very first location. And like I said, he forgot to ask us for him. He's still, he's one of my best friends now and he's totally a mentor, but I will never, like that was so instrumental in growing this business. Like how would we have gotten our very first space? But we, sorry, but I did put in the work.
16:41
I put in the work, it may have been rib work, but I put in the work for it and just kept talking about the business. So we stayed down in his basement, maybe another two years. And during that time, that's when I got a call from Will, who was a friend of ours from Sony and he's like, I know you're doing all your stuff. Come back and show us what you're doing. I was like, okay. And I hung up and I was like, I don't want to go there.
I do not want to show them people I'm making oil. Like I just felt like embarrassed and I was like, okay. And that's an honest thing. People like, oh yeah, entrepreneurship is great. Yeah, well, I'm struggling. I'm slinging ribs and I'm selling oils. So I'm like, I don't know what they're going to say. And you know what, you know what got me there again, Gary? Well, maybe they'll buy some, I can buy some more shoes. They buy some more stuff, I can buy some more shoes. I was like, okay.
So I packed up my stuff, I went to Sony and they put me in the conference room and it was gales, a bunch of people in there. I was like, oh yeah. I set up all my stuff and I just started talking. This is what I'm doing. I had gotten sick, blah, blah, blah, yada, yada, yada. I was like, I shared the story. It was just like verbal, like, blah, blah, blah. But I was like, that's what I'm going to do. Cause that's what I'm here to do. And I never know what's going to happen. And the woman who took my job after I left was like, I have a great connection that works at whole foods. And that is how we got into 64 whole food stores. That's how.
Now, I always tell people that story and they're like, oh my God, it was that, no. The woman who took your job. Yes, yep. I mean, she didn't take, like I left and then she was like, yes, yes, yes. She didn't take my job. She'd be like, I didn't take her She'd look into the podcast, I didn't take her job. She had already left. Like, okay. Yes. And she was, I didn't know her. That's the funny thing. All the Sony people that I knew, all my friends were very supportive. She was, I didn't know her.
And she introduced herself and we had a great conversation and I talked more about it. And she said, I got somebody for you to meet. Like hit this. And that guy was so, he was amazing. Now, when I tell people these stories, I said, these stories are meant for inspirational effect. And it's true, but there's always a middle piece. We had to get insurance. We had to make sure our labels were right. We had to, there was a lot to do to get prepared, but we got the opportunity. That was like the game changing moment was going there.
18:53
But I think, I'm so glad you pointed to that and you jumped in and figured all that out. It's really what I'm getting, because a lot of people try to get all that sorted out before, but you actually, the way that you did it, you jumped in first and then you let the next steps inform the next steps. And what's also beautiful about that is that you had a product that got tested in the market.
Before you even did all that. Like you knew there was a demand. You knew that people wanted this stuff. And then, okay, well, now there were, let's get insurance, right? Like, let's figure this out. Right, exactly. Let's do all that stuff. And both ways work. I mean, I have a really good friend and she has the same type of business and we work together, we don't compete, but we are so opposite into the stick. She will think something to death, but she makes sure her P's and Q's are right. But sometimes it never gets started.
And I'm like, before she finishes the sentence, I'm not signed up for something and I get it done, but sometimes it doesn't work and I waste money. But you gotta, like there's times for both ways and sometimes you gotta find a happy medium. That way, that day, it worked. It worked. So it was amazing. And so we sort of spent the next couple of years just getting in the Whole Foods and getting on the shelves and things like that.
And still, I have a downside story, but it's always a learning lesson. We were small and we were like, okay, we weren't doing, there was no QuickBooks. So we were doing like Excel spreadsheets and stuff like that. We didn't have a good accountant, but this is a lesson, like, especially now, if you start a business, protect yourself, okay? We didn't get a trademark done because it was 2001 and Dorn was like, oh, I just didn't think about it.
So we're getting ready to put Whole Foods. This is exciting. We're going on the shelf in our first stores in New York. And I get a letter to cease and desist from using this name. I was like, what? Because there was another company called Pookie and they said we were infringing on their trademark. And I spent a lot of money. And these people were going, they were not good people. They were going out of business. And I guess they came across our name and was like, hey, we could get some money from this girl.
21:11
So that was, and they were lawyers. I don't know if the person was a lawyer, but they were lawyers in the family. So it wasn't costing them anything to throw up these cases. And I did not protect myself. I did not have a trademark. So we went back and forth. I spent a lot of money. It was ruled that they could tell that they were going out of business. You could see what they were doing. But if I ever got any calls or anything about their company, blah, blah, blah, I had to pass it on to them. And I couldn't make lip balms for two years.
I wasn't even well, I was making lip balms, but I wasn't making a lot of money for them. But I mean, the money I spent on that lesson and I just tell every entrepreneur now, you are not too small. Protect yourself. I'm not saying spend a million dollars, but I mean, even if you do a dirty trademark, put it in a manila envelope and mail it to yourself. I don't even know if that holds up still now, but you have to at least address what you know or don't know and make sure you protect yourself because it really it can really cost you. I love it. And listen, those are.
Those are big company problems. Those are the kind of problems that when you're growing, they pop up even when you do your due diligence. Because when I worked at Limelife and ran a hundred million dollar operation, we still have people hitting us up trying to get away with all that stuff. It's just the game, there's opportunistic people out there. But yes, protect yourself.
And don't don't overthink it is what I'm trying to say. I'd much rather you guys swing out and go for it. And then you're like, and then you can sort it out along the way. Like, because so many of us just think about that stuff and Harper and Harper on it and don't really take it. You'll never be that prepared. People like trying to get everything right before they start their business. And as soon as you start something's going to come up. You just got to start. And my thing is like, fail fast.
Cause I don't wanna spend five years putting this together and then I do like, I'm gonna do this. I'm gonna get in like, oh, I hate this and get out. You know what mean? Like, I say that all the time. I'm like, I rather, when I start working with a client, I'm like, okay, I don't want perfection. I want you to have as many failures as possible right now. The key is take those, implement them, learn from it and keep going. The faster you do that, the faster you'll take off. 100%. I love that.
23:29
Either way, you'll quit and then you can do something. But you know, but it's true. Like you might find it's not for you. You know what I mean? Like if you fail, fail, fail, you're like, oh my gosh, I hate this. I don't love doing this. Fail fast for both ways because then you could do something else you love. Yeah. That's not what I want you to say. I'm like, I'm not encouraging people to quit. But no, no, you're right. You're 100 % right.
Right. But only the people that are going to quit are going to be the people that would quit down the road anyway, because it's not what they want to be doing. Yeah. Sometimes you get into adventure, you think I'm seeing everybody else doing it. This is great. If that's not your path or that's not for you, it's going to be hard when you have those times when you want to quit, because this is not a passion business or something you love. And you come up to those those type of roadblocks. You'll just fold. I mean, you'll want to fold. So I'd rather find out now that this is not what I want to do than push forward. Totally get that.
Okay, so I wanna, cause you're making this sound so much fun. Like you're making this sound like a total adventure, but I wanna get into your mindset a little bit as this is happening. Like, were you just like, all right, let's go. Or was it like, ooh, like what, how did you process the transition from, from like not being an entrepreneur to being an entrepreneur in your mindset?
I don't want to say hard. I mean it was different because once I came up with the product and we were getting into it and I was feeling great, a couple years down the road I started feeling sick again.
And even like when I was like slinging ribs and doing all that stuff, I'd have good days, bad days. And I'm like, oh my gosh, like I've started this business because I came up with this product because I was sick. I thought in my mind, oh, that's the end of this story. I was sick. I came up with something. I'm better. It's great. Guess what? I was sick again. And I was sitting at my parents' house and I couldn't feel my feet. My father was like, this, we've had enough. We're going to the emergency room again.
25:23
And this emergency doctor was the first doctor after all these doctors, like, what do you think is wrong? And I was like, well, either diabetes, and I knew I'd been tested for that. I was like, or multiple sclerosis. So he was like, all right. He said, I'm going to give you, we'll give you an MRI, like a brain MRI and a spinal tap. And it came back as multiple sclerosis. And I always tell people, and I think I shared, I was like, that day I was ecstatic. Like, yes. I mean, not stupidly ecstatic, but I was excited because you can't fight what you don't know. And I knew in my heart that was it.
Like I knew that was in every symptom and well, and the spinal tap came back, it was in the spinal fluid. So that was it. Like I didn't have to guess. Everything else was like, maybe it could be chronic fatigue. It could be five a month, could be Epstein -Barr, but it just didn't feel like it. Like I had a diagnosis now. So I was like, that's right. I'm getting ready to change my life and change my diet and then I started reading about it. Cause the internet can really burst your bubble.
And I just started to almost get so fearful when I would hear about people with MS and what's happening with MS and there's no cure for my MS. And I started thinking, can I be in a wheelchair? And I was like, all right, you're going to stop. And my parents were like, we're not going down this rabbit hole. And I decided I did not want to take the medication because it was injections. And at that point, like I said, that was 2007 I was diagnosed. So, and I feel like because my feet were numb at that time, I went to the emergency room and I found all this out is because I was having a really bad MS attack.
So for the next couple of years, I was super duper sick. Like I would have, I would remember at the beginning, and this was years ago, when I said I would go numb from the waist down, that would happen to me. Like it got to the point it would happen like 20 times a day. Like I really, I couldn't drive. I couldn't, I mean, I could walk, but I could be walking in the middle like zing and it would be like a lightning would shoot down my back. I'm numb from the waist down for maybe 30 seconds. And then the feeling would come back.
But I would be tired after and it was just, you know, it just wouldn't stop going. So I had found a great holistic doctor who was a medical doctor, but he was holistic. He does holistic first. And I mean, the medical world would put me on all the steroids and all that stuff, but I just, I didn't want to do it. So I work with him, food, diet, nutrition, supplements.
27:39
Acupuncture, acupressure, I worked with him everything. And holistic is a longer way to go, but for me it was a better result. And so with MS, you have these scars, you have an attack, you have a scar, and wherever the scar is, the brain can't read, so that's why I was going numb from the waist down, because I had a scar in that area. So hopefully it'll come back. Sometimes you can have a bad attack, it won't come back, it came back. But then three months later, I was in a cycle.
Three months later, my arms would go numb. So mentally, I was really getting depressed. But the upside is, I don't know how I would have worked the job at that point. So entrepreneurship was really working for me because maybe some days I'd be laying on the couch, can't feel my arms. I'm like, Ma, go put that in the box. Or I had a team that could work for me. So it was a scary time, but it was a good time.
I can't say it was, but the business became that's my thing. Like, I'm not giving this up because I was in the in the throes of MS and this was something my business made me feel better. And there were silver linings. And so it was so attached to my health. It was like my my little it was the thing that kept me going. Like, no, you got to get up to it. It gave you purpose. It sounds like you have orders. And what about if there are other people that have MS and you could tell them that they could make them out of started business, but they just inspiration.
So I did start doing some like speaking gigs and things like that. So mindset was, yeah, mindset was all over the place. But I think I thank God for my business because I don't know how I would have gotten through like the MS, that initial attack without my business. It was my business was my friend. It was like my, it was my friend. Oh, I have other friends too, Gary. I mean, it sounds like you had a whole lot of community around you supporting you. Beautiful family, yeah.
Cause what I'm really, I mean, I know you're saying that your business was the thing that gave you purpose through that. My experience very often is that that would be the thing that would derail most entrepreneurs. Yeah. And would be the thing that takes them off track, the excuse, the, the, and I hate to use the word excuse when you're really dealing with like health problems.
29:58
But it's just really inspirational that you were you found purpose on it in it, but you were also in Ownership, I would say of how like this is no we're gonna figure this out. Like this is Like you your mindset kept clear on the goal and kept clear on finding a solution and kept clear on empowering yourself through the process and empowering others really through your products and your story.
Yeah, most definitely. And I think it's what like what we just talked about. Like, if you don't love what you're doing when you have a time like that, like you said, you're out. I quit. I don't want to do this anymore. Yeah. You know what I mean? I'm sick. I don't feel good. I'm over it. But for me, I don't want to say it drove. Well, it did kind of drive me. It was like a combination. It kept me going because I was that passionate about it.
And I was like, all right, I know I felt relief. I know I'm doing better for my body during this time. So I loved my business. I love my business. There are some days I don't, okay. Oh yeah, let's talk about that stuff. Cause it's really easy to romanticize it all, but there are days when you just like. Gary, look, this is going to be like a real issue. This is going to be a real episode. Okay. Let's go. I got up and put on makeup because 30 minutes ago I was in that chair crying.
Okay. So I couldn't figure out my social media stuff. I was like, I'm so tired. I looked at the clock, I was like mascara. Like I got Gary's baby 20 minutes. It is like, it's a roller coaster. It really is. And it's so much pressure now with 2020 was especially for like bath and body businesses. And 2020 was a wave of, it was like a TikTok army came out.
Okay. And these girls, I mean, they're amazing. These girls came in, they started businesses during the pandemic. They started making turmeric scrubs in their house and they already, they did it a different way.
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They built up followers and then they sold them something as opposed to the way we used to do it old school, hey, I've got this wonderful product, let me sell it to you. They got the followers first and then they could sell them anything. But when we were all in that pandemic, it was an army of young girls that started bath and body companies, whip shea butter, whip this, whip that. And I'm over here, the old fossil, trying to be like, hey, and they do business a totally different way. So now, 24 years in for me, I've got to shift and try to do business the way.
Take some of the things that they, some of the ways that they do it and incorporate that. And there's just, there's resistance, mental resistance for me. Like I'm tired. I don't want to do it, but this is the way the businesses are functioning now. You have to be on TikTok. You have to be on Instagram. You have to do reels. You have to do these things.
And we're so email heavy because we kept those email addresses that I send out emails and people buy stuff. But am I getting new people? Am I getting younger people? Like that is a whole new thing that I have to turn around now. It almost sometimes feels like building a new business. So I mean, there is something to be said for older businesses that are trying to fit into the new way businesses are done, which is building a following first and selling them something.
So there's a lot of fatigue. There's a lot of fatigue and even if you are a new business like it's not like It when you shut that camera and you load that reel you got to turn around and do the work You know, I mean, yeah, yeah now you can ship those products. You got a it's a lot of work It's a lot of work and it's good work But and there's also another thing the girls weren't doing they weren't even putting up websites They were doing what they were like, oh well DM me for orders or things like that.
So people weren't taking taxes, you still gotta do your business the right way. So there was a lot of... And I think it's important to also acknowledge the other side of that, because I often meet entrepreneurs who are so hyper -focused on trying to build the following and not going for the low -hanging fruit, right?
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Not making, like what I really hear about your success story is you guys really went to work at building these relationships and you shared your story, you connected, you have your very powerful storyteller, you use that to your advantage. You had these events and I will bet that's why your email list is so strong because these are real connections that you have made with people through your powerful story.
Through your personality through your obvious care and passion. A lot of these kids can't touch that. Absolutely, absolutely. And I think that the, I'm not putting anything down. That's a whole different model. Obviously some of these guys are making a ton of money, but everybody's only chasing that way now. And it's becoming, first of all, I think it's becoming a little sterile.
Like where? It's routine, yeah, yeah. And yeah, I appreciate the entertainment factor, but the humanity isn't always there, like a genuine deep connection. So I'm still a big fan of this way of doing it. Of talking to people and making an actual connection. Yeah. I got more stories, Gary. I got more stories. I got a really good one for you. I got a really good one for you. This one involves, like, just work-life balance.
Look, that was an MS moment. I was like, I mean, look, I can't even get it out of a metaphor. We have to talk about where you are health-wise so that people aren't like, Yes.
That's what I said, that could have been an MS or menopause moment. They just go back and forth. But entrepreneurs have to learn how to build work -life balance. And that's something that I struggle with because when I started the business, I was single, no kids, things like that. So I didn't have anything to deter me from doing this. So I hustled all day long.
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It got to the point where I was like, all right, you don't have anything left to give this business. Like you have to build a personal life. People were calling me, Pooka. Like I was like, you got to have a personal identity. You know what I mean? Like you can't just be the business. So, and for me, I'm a woman of faith. I stopped going to church. Cause guess what? On Sunday, I got stuff to do. I was doing my other little stuff and I was like, you can't let your responsibilities go as an entrepreneur, you have to have some discipline and balance.
Like this is family time. This is that time because you don't want to look up 20 years in and all you have is that business. And you, like you said, haven't developed any new friendships or relationships. So I just, it was in my spirit, I was like, I'm going to church. I'm going to go to church. I'm going to go to church this Sunday. So I got up, went to church and as soon as I went to church, they snagged me right up. Cause they knew I did graphics. They like, Hey Dawn, they knew they hadn't seen me. Like we got to work. We want you to work on a brochure. And I said, damn it. No.
And I was like, but I can't say no to Jesus. I was like, all right, thank you, I sure will.
So they hooked me up with this new member. I was like, in my mind, I was like, see, I knew I shouldn't have came to church today. How horrible is that? I'm sorry, guys. I'm just kidding. I can't say no to Jesus. I was like, I can't. He's gonna get me. I was like, oh my, all these blessings I got, I'm gonna shut up and do this broach tour. Oh, I, Gary, I had no time. When was the last time you had even designed at that point? I don't even know. I was just like, you don't want me to do it. My dad asked me all the time, I'm like, dad, I can't even tell you the last time.
I've opened up like I can't. I'm sorry. Yeah, like dad go to Canva .com. You'll be okay. Yeah, this was after I wasn't designing it before Canva was there. Because I sure would have been like, do it on Canva. So I had to go to this lady's house for like, they needed it so quickly. I went to her house every day.
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for like a week, a week and a half. And she was nice, but I mean, I met her through the church, really nice lady, older than me, but you know, younger. So we would talk and she's like, tell me about your business. And so I would tell about the business and then I would do stuff in the mornings. We work on a brochure. I would come back and like, oh, guess what happened with the business today? But so she, she's still again, another really good friend. And so we went on and on and on. So then, okay, the booklet is done. We were very happy with high fiving. We go to church the next week. We had turned it in. The church was so happy. The booklet was done. Amen. Thank you, Jesus. So I was like, okay.
So I felt good about that. So I was like, oh yeah, I'll call you. She's like, yeah, you always stay in touch, but you always say that. I saw this lady four days, maybe four or five days later, and I saw her in Whole Foods. And she was like, I was going to call you. She's like, are you ready to be on TV? Girl, bye. I was like, yes. Unbeknownst to me, she was a producer for NBC Universal. She never even told me. And she put me on the Today Show.
Because she pitched to them a series about female entrepreneurs from hearing my story and all the stuff that they told her. And it was called Step Up and Strike Out. And they did this series and she pitched me. And that's how we got on the Today Show. And it was a national spot. Look at God. Look at God. Look at God. Look at God. What are you doing?
Won't he do it if you show up? I'll show up. I'll show up, guys. I'll show up. But just the way that was put together, Gary. Tell me you've been at church every day since. Yeah, yeah, well, OK. There's some holes. There's some holes. There's some holes. But for the most part, I'm up in there, Gary, or virtually watching it online. But I'm a part of it.
Stuff like that, she knows. There's a lot of times you're going to advance your business when you don't even know you're doing it. I was just talking to her, getting advice, mentorship. She's like, oh, I was like, oh, she's really smart and just, and look what came out of it. So they came in, I think it was a couple of weeks later, they came full, full cameras and lights, camera action. And we filmed the whole day. Then we went and filmed us in Whole Foods and.
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We got a whole segment on the Today Show, which got so many people coming into our website from all over the country because it was national. And that was because Dawn took her, but Dawn realized that you have other priorities here, not just your business. And took my butt back to church and God was like, let me bless my little daughter right here. But again, it's like, I feel like you're really masterful at just connecting with people and building relationships. Go, Gary.
I don't know, it's something I enjoy. It comes so naturally for you that you don't even see it as like a skill. Yeah, I'm just talking, I'm chatting. You're just being yourself, yeah. I'm chatting. No, but, and like, I'm an introvert, so there are times that I'm like, I have to like force myself to talk to people. And I do what I do, so I'm on all day. I'm like in the podcast, or I'm on coaching calls, or I'm doing a training.
I'm on a stage, so I know how to put it on when I need to put it on, but my instinct is to now then go to my little corner. And when I'm on the plane, I'm that guy that's like, I'm busy, don't talk to me.
I was talking about he has a large waiting room and you'd be waiting for him forever. And everybody's always sitting there like just looking like, oh, they're so miserable. As soon as I come in, I'm speaking to everybody. So one day it was so loud, I was making jokes. I was standing in the middle of the waiting room. And I can hear the doctor. He's like, Ms. Fitch is out there, isn't she? I was like, ooh. But I enjoy that. Thank God, I guess I enjoy that. So I'm always gonna talk about my business, put it out there. Sure, yeah.
Because you just never know what's gonna come. It doesn't come in a system every time. If you do X, Y, Z, you don't always get this. You gotta sometimes just put it out there. Like those bread crumbs you talk about. And this never happens alone. It always happens in community. Yep, almost It always happens in community. And even me as an introvert, like sometimes I struggle with reaching out for that support, right? And every time I do.
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Without fail, it's like, it's the universe always delivers. It always delivers. So it's a really beautiful lesson, because if you're like, I'm independent, I gotta do it myself. And it's like, no, you don't. No, you don't. You don't. In fact, you can't. You can't. And it's easier. It's easier. And it's a more fun journey. To me, when you do, like I have, I could keep you on here for eight. I'm gonna give you one more, well, maybe a couple more stories, Gary.
We were doing the... We'll make this a two-part episode. I am a two-parter, guys. We were doing Circle of Sisters in the city. And that's like Circle of Sisters Black Expo. Like you set up, it's at the Jabba Center. And you set up and they have tables and it's done by the radio station. It was WBLS. So they have artists. It's like a whole weekend's days event. So all the people, it's packed. Like thousands of people go. So we're ah, let's set up and do a table. Now to do a vending event there, because it's Saturday and Sunday all day, you gotta pack up, bring your stuff.
Those events like that are tiring. Like just your back and everything. They're exhausting. So, but we always, like myself, sister, friends, everybody we like, we're gonna talk to everybody, we're gonna smile. Like we would go buy people's.
Businesses and they sit there with their head down look like they didn't even like their eyes was like, please don't talk to us I'm like, dude, you're selling something and you don't want me to talk to you. Okay, so everybody that walked by us Hey, how you doing? It wasn't even about buying it was just like hey, how you doing? So yeah, we spent the whole day. We all like me my sister friends We laughing because like -minded people so we packed up we go home was a good day So the next day on Monday, I got a call from a woman. She's like, hi She's like I was at Circular Sisters yesterday and she's like and you guys were so amazing my daughter who I think her daughter was, I don't know, she was eight or nine.
She's like, you talked to her about entrepreneurship and you really inspired her and she was so inspired when she came home. She's like, I'm so happy. She's like, I wanna help you guys. Okay. And she's like, my name is LaShant. And she said, I am the star of The Color Purple on Broadway in Manhattan. We were like, what? Gary, this woman who won, I think she won a Tony for that, for the Oprah's The Color Purple. She was the, she played Celie.
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And she fell in love with POOKA because we were so kind to her daughter. And she's like, no, just girl power. She put us in every magazine that she got like little interviews for. She would be holding her POOKA. She brought us to Broadway and we did a POOKA party for the cast of The Color Purple. She gave us free tickets to the show. And then we went backstage and just a wonderful, like we actually went to see her. She was starring in Donna Summers.
Broadway play, I think it was like a couple of years ago. And we kept that relationship, like she's a good friend. And we always like, who actually talked to her? Like, no, it was me, it was me. We don't know, but we know that it was, but we all know each other and we're like -minded. So we know somebody was up there yammering it up. But this woman who, like I said, star of the color purple and just we're doing cast parties. So everything that happened in the business and I would get like, do a lot of mentorship and people like, well, how'd you get this? How'd you get that?
Stuff you learn in kindergarten. Be kind to people, talk, be polite, be respectful. There's no way that everything is gonna happen, but for us, talking and trying to be authentic and sharing and not worrying about the dollar all the time has just really just given us the best, most beautiful experiences. There's a whole book of lessons in what you just shared there. So many.
No, and it's I mean, if you're listening like talk to everybody, like talk and share and share your passion. Oh, so good. I haven't even I barely asked you questions. You've been interviewing yourself. See, you got you got to stop. I love it. I love it. I love this format. I just want to talk. The best kind of interview where you don't have to just organically go where it needs to go.
I did an interview once and the girl was like, oh, sometimes we get people and they're nervous to talk. I was looking at her like, girl, you got the wrong lady. I'm good. You're going to have to time me. I do want to just get into your health and where you are now. So people kind of, so we close the loop on that. Yes. So from 2007 to maybe about 2017, 100 % holistic.
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And I also want to say, I do not say that with judgment. I do not judge people for taking medication. And I want to make sure that I always, when I say that, like, it is your choice. It is what you choose to do. I never want to come off holier than now because I mean, I still have, holistic isn't a cure.
It's just the way that I chose to deal with it. So good days, bad days, sometimes I'll go a year and a half without having any type of MS thing. Now I'm having a lot of vertigo, so I know something has happened. So MS is unfortunately forever, but I mean, God is good. I'm walking, talking. Even like my bad days, I'm still walking, talking.
I try to eat well and it's so funny like I will fall off the wagon with that too. I mean I will go back to it but yeah there's some sounds I'm like oh my god I ate that chocolate cake and I was I started this group called the best life tribe on Facebook and we talked about health and wellness and things like that and I saw one of the I guess she was in the group because now the group is I'll tell you about that story but she was in the group and she came over and we were at an event and she's like mm -hmm she was like I was watching to see if you're gonna eat that cookie girl.
You could hem me up and try to catch me all you want. Like I'm never gonna live like that. Like I am not like a health guru, but I am a girl who's trying, a woman who's trying. You know what mean? Like, so do I fall off the wagon every day? Do I tell you things so I can judge you? No, I find out tips and I share them with you. And I hope that I don't ever tell anybody, you should do all holistic, but try it. If you're on medication, even a living a more, a little bit more holistic lifestyle will help you if you're on medication.
But I was so insulted that she was trying to catch me eating the cookie. I was like, if this was a TV show, I would have just turned around and ate that cookie right in her face. But I was like, no, don't. But I mean, it goes back to what we talked about earlier about the Instagram world. Right. Because there's so many inconsistencies with what people put out. So I kind of understand that that instantly. Yeah. I think the difference is I never claimed to do that. I'm doing this stuff because I have.
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And I share the things that work for me with you. I don't tell you to do them. I share what works for me. So right now I'm in the midst of eating, trying to eat, I try to stay trying to eat good. In 2016, I lost my dad and my brother within four months. And I was not doing anything. And holistic is so much mind work, positive mind, positive attitude. And I went to my holistic doctor. He was like, you're not.
You're grieving, you're not doing anything. He said, you've got to support your body somehow. He said, if you're not doing any of the holistic work, then you've got to make a decision. And then I did go on medication and it gave my mom peace because my mom was so fearful. She just lost the two men in her life. Not gonna do it. Not gonna do it. So she wanted to make, she was just like, no, take the medication. But she's, my mother is like my biggest supporter, my mother, my sister.
So I took it for them and there was a part of me that was afraid too. And when I was diagnosed in 2007 versus all of the treatments for MS now in 2024, it's a lot different. So there is no cure, but there are a lot, there are other medications that can keep things at bay. So I do go back and forth with, should I be like, I started taking the injections, the very, the oldest base one they had, which is like, it has the least coverage for you, but it was something. And it was something that I was willing to do because it was so.
They had been in the market for so many years. They'd run the most tests on it. So that's where I am right now. I'm trying to roll off of that. If I do, I do. If I don't, but I mean, the holistic, when I do poorly with my food and diet and that's when I feel worse. So I know that that the impact. Yeah, I know it's working. If I don't do my meditations and things like that, and I let myself get overwhelmed and I cry in the chair, I know it's time that I need to like get back to my holistic roots. So I'll never lose that.
I'll never be a guru, your genie with it, but it's always gonna be a part of my life. So thankfully, I'm gonna say I'm well right now. And I plan to stay that way. There's something really powerful in what you're sharing too, because I feel that when people take on things like that, whether it's weight loss or developing a new habit or they go through this.
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Oh, I didn't work. I failed. I got off of it. And then they go, Oh, it didn't work. And then they just like walk off, resign. And I love how you are aware that this is your true north. And yeah, I'm going to go off course because that happens when you're sailing and then you keep coming back, right? You keep coming back to your true north and resetting. And it's because there's so much humanity in that interpretation and that relationship with it.
Because we're so hard on ourselves. We start beating ourselves up the moment we got off and then you just throw up your hands. And it's like, no, no, no, no, no. You come back. Tomorrow, we'll do it again. There's nothing. Yeah. What you just said when you're sailing, you're true. That's a book. Like, I love that analogy. I love that. You are going to go off from your, Yeah!
Yes, from your true self, when you are sailing, that's beautiful. And like I can really see the visual for that. And that is so true. And there's so much power and just being great, giving yourself grace. All right, so I didn't do it today. I'm gonna try again tomorrow. 100%. That's it. 100%. And I struggle with that. I'm like, oh my God. Like, wait a minute, calm down. It's a life practice. Never ending. Yeah. Yeah. And I don't even know that we will ever get it 100%. I'm always like self-correcting, always.
It's easier than it has than it was before and it feels better. It feels better not to beat myself up all day long because entrepreneurship you could beat yourself all day long. Oh my God, say it again for the people in the back. Oh, from your money to your taxes to your this to if you really in that mindset you could beat yourself for the minute you get out of the bed and then punch yourself in the face and get back in the bed. You know what I mean? Yeah. You have to adapt that, adopt that positive mindset.
And I know people are, they're sick of hearing positive mindset, self care, but I don't care how you say it, you gotta do it. You gotta do some, some portion of it, whatever it works, whatever it looks like for you. But those are the things that's the, people always talk about structure in the business. Like you gotta have your, your structure and your banking has to be set up and you have to have a good foundation. If you don't have a good mind foundation, that's just as bad. You know what mean? Like you got, your mind has to be just as good as the business, that structure.
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Or even better, because quite frankly, you can always get your finances straightened out. Once your mind goes, you're in trouble. Yeah. No, it really is everything. And what I think the thing that people I feel get caught up is back to what I was saying before, that they think is like, oh, I'm going to choose to have a positive mindset. OK. And then you just walk off into the sunset. Right. No, you choose to have a positive mindset.
And then you choose to have a positive mindset. And then you choose to have a positive mindset. And then you keep doing that over and over. That's That's it in a nutshell. It's like you never actually get it. You just keep, okay, okay. And then the spans that you keep it a little bit longer, but it's a life work. Yeah, that way you just said right there. You do that enough times, you do develop the muscle to hold on to it a little bit longer and to recuperate quicker.
Yes, yes, yes, like I didn't cry all day. I was like, oh yeah, yeah, yeah, exactly. No, no, but it's true. It's true. There's nothing wrong with crying. There's nothing wrong with crying it out. There are times you just gotta go, okay, but that, that right there, right? Like you can just, it could take you out. And sometimes some people it takes them out for a week.
Yeah, yeah, like exactly right. It takes you out for a couple hours a couple minutes that that's that's when I clean it up and keep it moving. Yeah, most definitely. I love that.
Okay, my friend, I think we'll pause it there, because we can keep going and going, but will you please come back? This was so much fun. Yeah, are you going to be like, oh my God, Dona's on here again? Like, hey, part 16, Carrie. Not at all. I'm literally sitting here with a smile on my face the whole time. It's so good. So entertaining. I love it. I love it. I love it. It's been so wonderful reconnecting with you. You as well. After all these years. Congratulations of your success.
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Please, please go get yourself go try POOKA. So I ordered a so I we hadn't talked in 20 years or something. Yeah. And I was following you on LinkedIn. And I saw you posting like you were like you were we have we have sampler packs of our shea butters. And I was I don't know. I was just like, Oh, yeah. Let me me support Don. Oh, yeah.
So I ordered the sample pack and I was like, babe, come over here. Smell these. And he took some for work and everybody's like, that stuff is good. So it's a beautiful product. It's really good. And sometimes like she butter is so, but yours is so smooth and easy to get on and you don't have to like, so good job. Good job. Good job. And that you supported me.
You know what mean? So it's like, again, Pooka's like, it's going on another journey. I don't know what's going to come for the Gary journey. Something will come. Something will. You definitely will get some new customers, but I'll take it. Who Maybe I'll introduce you. This came. I'm on the ownership game. This game. That's right. That's right. All right, my love, have a wonderful day. Thank you so much for joining me and we will definitely have you on the show soon. OK, all right. Thanks, Gary. Bye, everybody.
Dawn is a perfect example of the power of having a growth mindset. Instead of feeling defeated or sorry for herself due to the many health problems that she was experiencing, Dawn chose to turn her struggle into her purpose, letting her journey inspire and help others along the way. Her openness, her vulnerability, and her authenticity in sharing her story put her on the path. But it was her willingness to be a yes to every opportunity.
Even when it didn't seem like an opportunity, that illuminated the next step and then the next. All the while, learning from every mistake along the way, getting better and better each day. And to think that it all started with her playing around in her kitchen stove. I hope that her story has been as inspiring for you as it has been for me. As always, thank you so much for joining us. If you've been enjoying the podcast, please, please, please don't forget to share it with someone that you love.
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It would mean the absolute world to me. And I think the person you share it with will enjoy it as well. Thank you for joining us. I'll see you next week.
Thanks for listening to this episode of The Ownership Game with your host, Gary Montalvo. Make sure to like and comment on your favorite podcast platform, as well as subscribe so that you never miss an episode.