00:00
I manage it in a few ways. Number one, perspective. The bad times are never as bad as they seem, and they won't last. The good times are never as great as they seem, and they won't last. So enjoy both for what they are. Perspective is critical. And I think kind of dovetailing on that, realizing that you're not defined by your successes and your failures. You're defined by the impact that you have on the people whose lives you get to touch. They don't care much about the successes and the failures.
00:42
In today's episode, we speak to the remarkable Sarah Shadonix. Leaving behind her life as a lawyer, Sarah pursued her deep-seated passions for sustainable farming, wine, and the joy of delivering products that are rooted in nature.
This led her to become the visionary behind Scout & Seller, one of the largest wine distributors in the US, dedicated to disrupting the commercialized wine industry by championing clean crafted wines that are natural and meticulously sourced. This is undoubtedly an enriching episode packed with moments of candid reflection and invaluable experiences that go deep into the heart of making life altering decisions that are driven by passion and the pursuit of adding value to the world.
01:50
Okay, so you used to be a lawyer and now turned into a winemaker. I'm really interested in how that transition happened for you. Cause you know, like it takes many years to prepare to be a lawyer. It's a big investment of time commitment. You put all this work, you're at it. And then it's like a whole other pivot, right? So what was happening for you that led you to that? How did, let's dig into, let's dig deep into that.
What was happening to me that led me to change careers? Yeah, like, well, I don't think, I don't see, I don't get the experience that it was a career change for you as much as you got it, you had a calling. That's true, yes. Yeah. It was a life change. It was a whole like life change. And so it was really about a couple of things were going on.
I had this experience as a kid growing up in these deep seated passions and curiosities about farming and things that are grown and delivering joy to people through that experience on the one hand, which is kind of always kind of humming along in the background. Like, yeah, because you grew up in a farm for people who don't know you, you grew up in a farm. So you would, this was part of your, your childhood. Yep. I grew up on a farm where dinner was always home cooked, made from things grown. And that was important.
Seeing kind of the life cycle of how things are grown, how they taste different, and how the care and feeding going into things that are grown actually manifests itself in so many different ways and impacts people in so many different ways. And that was meaningfully important to me. And I developed a lot of curiosity for and passion about that. So that was like the background music in my life. And so it fueled my passion for food and for wine and for coffee and for tea and for like learning about that. And then I was a lawyer.
And I liked that just fine. And then I had a couple of experiences as a lawyer towards the end of my career as a lawyer that made me question the value I was adding in the world. And I won't go into too much detail just because it doesn't do any good to talk about things that aren't casting people in the best light. But I was representing folks and had a couple of experiences with people in a variety like that.
04:15
Had pretty high up positions in the legal community that made me question what I was doing and why I was doing it if I was really helping people. Because there was a lot of displays of no integrity and I was being at, it just made me, why am I even here? Am I helping anybody? So I decided maybe I could do something else that could be more helpful. And this background music is playing about things that are grown. And so I thought, huh, maybe I could add a little value by delivering joy and connection to people in the form of wine.
And so without any experience working in wine, I was just a really good wine buyer and taster. I'm a super taster actually, I am. I've got a really good palate, which is good and bad, Gary. And I studied and got some wine professional certifications after I left the law. And then I went to work in the wine industry.
So you, so okay, so you, you went, so you started the process of transition and you just go to cold Turkey, right? You, you, and you, and how did you, like, how did wine come about? Like, was it, was that like, oh, wine. I've always loved wine. My husband and Cause you could have done marketing for wine. You could have done law for wine. You could have, you know what I mean? Like, how did you get into like, I'm going to make wine.
Yeah, well, it happened like most things very organically. I earned these wine professional certifications. I spent about a year doing that. And then I applied to a variety of jobs in the wine industry in California. And I ended up getting a job with this little tiny company. And I'll never forget this. I flew out to California for this interview, Gary, and I'm wearing my lawyer clothes. I have heels on and this like suit dress. Okay. And I'm going for this interview with this tiny company in Sonoma, California. And they're in like blue jeans and t -shirts.
Okay. And our lawyer walking into the room. Maybe I didn't get the memo on the dress code, but okay. I'm dressed your best, right? So anyway, it was for a job as a channel manager in e -commerce for this little tiny company. And I worked with wineries all over the East coast, all over the West coast in Oregon, California, and Washington to source their wines and position them for sale online. And I got this job and I did it for a couple of years and I loved it.
06:43
And I learned so much about the wine industry and I developed some great relationships. And I learned the most important thing that led me to today, which is that there was an opportunity to bring to the world these types of grown wines that are made naturally and bottled consciously, kind of at scale. And that's where the idea for the Clean Craft commitment of Scount & Seller came from is most wines available to most people are commercialized, they're the product of big food.
They're grown with pesticides to maximize yields. They're manipulated with additives to yield a certain taste year after year after year because the American palette wants things to taste. They want their McDonald's burger to taste the same in Tokyo as it does in Dubai, as it does in Plano, Texas, as it does in New York City. And so wine was just a byproduct of the broken food system. And I thought, huh, we can just deliver this really naturally made wine to everybody. That's more delicious, but how can we do it at scale?
So that's where the idea for the, for Scott and Seller, clean craft to come in, it came from. And I want to just pause it because until I met you and until I met Scott and Seller, I had no idea that that was even a thing. Like I never even thought about the wine that I drink being mass produced in that way. And the things that actually had to go into it to mass produce it that way.
So I was like, it was just like a radical idea for me. Cause I mean, it seems so obvious now when we talking about it, cause of course everything is, but it hit me in the head like a two by four. Like I was just like, what do you mean there's stuff on my wine? Like, what are you talking about? Okay. And so you go on with this idea, which is pretty radical in the industry. I mean, at this point you have some experience in the business.
But, you still don't have experience making the wine and producing the wine, right? Well, so I don't have a lot of experience and a lot of things. So let's I'm working in this job and developing some relationships and I have this big idea and I needed a way to start the business, Gary. Like I've got this idea for this whole new kind of wine and I need a way to sell the wine. And I really wanted to launch the business and sell it online. That's the kind of the channel of wine I had been working in. And I was passionate about that.
09:07
Everybody buying everything online. This is in 2015 and 16. And at that time, about 1% of all wine was being bought online. Another radical idea. 1%. But about 30 % of retail was online at the time. And I'm like, oh, look at all this opportunity here. I saw that gap as opportunity. And so I thought, well, how are we going to sell this wine online? People aren't used to buying wine online. And so I did some research to see.
Who's the primary buyer of wine and what do they buy wine based on? And women are the primary buyers of wine and they buy wine based on three things. What their friends are drinking, the story behind the wine and the label. And there was, I had a girlfriend across the street from me at the time that was doing Plexus, a direct selling company. And I was like, huh, this business model really leverages those buying behaviors. So maybe I can launch my e-commerce whole new kind of wine using this model.
And so I did. And it's as simple as that. So I did. End of story. Huge success. And that's it. Yep. Were you as, I mean, when you're telling the story, it all sounds like fearless in a way. Was it really like that? Or are we? No, of course not. And here's the deal. As this is happening,
I had such modest expectations. I mean, I'm thinking like my mom and sister, maybe some friends might buy this wine. Like maybe we'll sell a few hundred bottles a month. Like this is going to be like a small little, I had a grand vision, but I was, I was pretty pragmatic about it. Yeah. And so no, it was, you got to start to get anywhere. So the key is starting. And that was what I was doing is just starting with pretty humble expectations.
Listen up listeners, just start. I'm always telling people you got to just start because the next step will illuminate the next and it will illuminate the next. But when you're over here, you can't see how all everything is going to unfold. You'll never get anywhere if you don't start. So you started down the road with all these obstacles. First of all, you're entering a heavily male dominated industry.
11:30
You're with a pretty radical concept of clean crafted wine with, we said we don't experience obviously, you're kind of figuring out as you go along, a business model that you're not familiar with as well. So it's like And a radical model in the wine space. So we've got a whole new type of wine in a male dominated industry, marketing to females with a model that the wine industry is not familiar with. Oh yeah, I mean, totally like not likely to succeed.
You must have been called insane at least once or twice. Gary, even my dearest friends and family called this for the first year that I was working on it my little wine thing. Your little wine thing. And they said it with affection but also kind of like, you know, your little wine thing. Because it was just there was no way that this was going to be successful. Yeah, the odds are, I mean.
We should probably tell the listeners who are not familiar, it has been very successful. We're one of the largest wineries in the country, yes. We're the largest direct selling winery in the country. I think that's part of the magic though. Like if you can just start and if you can think of yourself as an underdog, like you can manage your own expectations, like the sky's the limit. Just get out of your own way. Yeah.
But there's a, I mean, I'm really hearing a willingness on your part to, I don't wanna say go against the grain, because I don't know that you were trying to shake things up. I think you just had a vision and the vision was the vision and it called for all these things. But there was a willingness for you to go there and get on the skinny branches and make the hard choices.
Absolutely. I mean, I think in the beginning, I certainly wasn't didn't think of the idea as something big enough to shake things up because I thought we'd be small in the beginning. It's like most things. And then as we as we began to grow and I began to realize that we were and could, in fact, shake things up even more. I mean, even when I would talk to industry folks about the company in the beginning, Gary, I think I must have gotten laughed out of so many rooms.
13:50
By mostly by men in like suits that work in line that are 30 years old, 60 year old white men. And that's, that was, that was kind of, I checked off success and moved on. And look at you now. But my barometer of success is not the opinion of somebody that's been doing this something the same way for 50 years.
It's “are we delivering deliciousness to our customers? Are they reordering? Are we creating opportunity? Are we doing better for our planet? Are we making a difference in people's lives?” If we're doing those things, then hopefully we'll begin to influence others around us, but we just have to stay at it. Yeah. And you, I read somewhere that you guys set the goal of being carbon neutral by 2028, which was shocking to me because every time I hear one of those goals, they're always like, 20 years out, 15 years out in 2034.
And I was like, 2028, that's like around the corner. Another, I mean, that's the end. That's kind of what I'm pointing to. I'm sure that you could have picked a more comfortable deadline for yourself. Sure. But why do that? Why? Everybody else is saying 2050. Like, I'm going to be so old.
I want us to celebrate this milestone together and make it meaningful to people and make a difference. So why set a goal that's easy and why not set a goal that's impactful? We're hopefully going to announce in a month or two that we're going to be a B Corp. So we're already making meaningful strides towards these goals. So yeah, key is starting, Gary, starting and going. Yeah.
And what that tells me is my takeaway is that it's not about the sound bite of it for you that you're really, I know this goal is important and like, let's make it happen now. So how do you go about getting people on board and staying the course when like all the odds are against you and you have this, you're building this vision that's pretty radical. All these things are stacked against you. What was your process like in just getting people on board?
16:10
Casting vision. I'm a big, big, exciting vision caster of where we're going, how we're going to get there, but most importantly, why, who I'm talking to needs to be a part of it and how they'll make a difference. You got to get people on the bus. So you got to like paint the picture of where you're going and then get them on board. Yeah. And so you do that, but then there's like holding them in place.
Oh, yeah, absolutely. So you got to deliver on goals and then, yeah, you got to move the bus forward. You guys. OK. Yeah. So casting, you cast the vision again and then just it sounds like the commitment of delivering on the promises that you actually it's really what you because what I what's coming up for me is what I'm getting present to is that a lot of people just keep casting the vision.
And they rely on charm and their relationship skills to keep casting that vision over and over and over again. But what you're pointing to is that if at some point you don't start delivering on some of those promises, then the whole, the bus breaks down. Absolutely. And I think one of the keys is making sure that you get people on this proverbial bus, but then you're not the one, you're not the only person casting vision and driving.
You got other folks that are doing that and then they're bought in. Such a good lesson right there. Yeah, because a lot of people hold the vision themselves. Yeah, and then it gets bottlenecked. What would you say has been your your biggest keys to success? We talked about vision casting a bit so I'm gonna probably put that one on the list for you.
I would say consistency is so critical. I think about this all the time. I mean, motivation is that thing that gets us to show up and start. But it always, it's the thing that goes away, it fades. Consistency is necessary to succeed in anything, whether it's a workout program, a diet, a new sleep regimen, or a business. You've got to show up every single day, no matter how you're feeling, for what you're doing.
18:30
And so consistency is it's definitely and it's in your behavior and your attitude and your effort and in delivering on your mission. But consistency is key. And that's really hard. It's very hard. What what what immediately came up in my mind came up with how do you stay consistent? Like what's your key access to that? I think mindset and experience and training like I've had some experiences in my life that have gotten to practice being consistent as an athlete, as other experiences.
So, but you can train yourself to be consistent. I think it's just practicing good mindset and deciding to do it and then having others that can hold you accountable. Thank you for saying that. Cause so many people think that it's like something you're born with or like a skill that you have and it's absolutely training 100%. It's a practice and you're not always
You don't always get it right, of course, but then it's what you come back to, it's what you reset to. Correct. Can I confess something to you? So I pride myself on this. I just told you it's like my second most important secret of success, consistency. I work out, I do a variety of things for working out and I have been a, I've written a Peloton for like seven years. And I stopped writing at Gary for a year and a half, just stopped.
And I consistently written it like every week for like almost seven years. And I just quit. And then about a month ago, I finally was like, OK, it's time to start writing it again. I got to get back to be consistent here. So, you know, it's OK to fall down. You just got to get back up and be consistent again. 100 percent, 100 percent. And it's that willingness to get back. It's like what I'm always telling people is like it's it's the recovery, really.
It's not that you never fail because that's what people seem to focus on as a measure. It's like, oh, I hit a home run and I hit it out the park and it was woohoo. And it's like, that's not how that goes. Success is not ever linear. It's the recoveries really that that are meaningful. It's the recoveries that set the tone and build you up and and teach you so much from that. It's how you respond. Right.
20:55
Yeah. And you've had a lot to do, a lot of responding. Yes, quite a lot in the last almost seven years. Yes, it's been quite a journey through COVID and all the things. Oh, sorry. Go ahead. No, I was going to say, give me some of the highlights. I think I read something about you guys literally selling out of wine at the beginning and not having anything else to sell.
Well, let me go back before that, Gary. Like, we'll go back to early days, then I can tell some other stories. So in the beginning, we were going to launch the company with eight wines. Okay. Okay. And I curated these wines with these growers. They were magical wines. And we had one particular wine that was going to be like our flagship feature, like, like the wine we were going to like lead with. And it was this beautiful white wine from this tiny little vineyard in California.
And we went through our testing protocols and we were like very close to the launch date. And this one wine, the flagship wine, we prepared all these marketing materials with some sort of rubbed some dirt together and kind of put these materials and this wine popped positive for one insecticide, one one hundredth of a point above zero. Oh no, one one thousandth of a point above zero. So like. Minuscule. Like, yeah, a bleep.
Like not even okay. Yeah, it could have been from like blow over from her neighbor, right? So I reached out to the winemaker and I asked her I said, hey, it's part of our process. Like, I need to follow up with you on this. And she's she said, yes, we actually did spray that. And I said, okay. And at this point, Gary, I had a choice to make. We're a whole new company. Nobody's ever heard of us. Nobody knows what the clean craft commitment means. I mean, we don't even hardly know what we're not even doesn't even exist. And I had a choice to make.
Do we launch the wine? Cause nobody's ever gonna know. Yeah. Right? Yeah. Do we launch the wine or do we, so we can sell it and make more money and have this beautiful wine and have to start off a company with a great reputation of taste and all these things, or do we pull it? And get it right the next time, right? Like, Oh, so I decided to pull it because if I had not pulled it, then our standard would have meant nothing. Our core values would have meant nothing. Like we would be a company built on like a lie.
23:16
And that's not a very good foundation for anything. So yes, we sold out of wine, but that's really because I had to pull a wine. And so that kind of set the tone for how we've run the business. Do you remember how much money that cost you? I mean, back then it was a lot to me. It was like a pallet of wine. It was that. So, yeah. And I got a very unkind note from this very esteemed winemaker. So it's certainly like, hurt my feelings and made me disappointed.
But you know, it was the right thing to do for the business. Yeah. No, it goes back to the consistency in your sharing earlier. And because those are the decisions that shape the next one. Correct. Right. Had you lowered the bar at that moment, well, what happens the next time?
And then what happens the next time and then what happens the next time and the bar just keeps lowering. So a lot of people can say, oh my God, nobody would have known this. Like, yeah, but those are the types of decisions that build that consistency muscle over time. And I mean, when you make it and here's the thing, cause I want the listeners to get this cause everybody does this all day long with all kinds of stuff.
When you are doing this kind of game when you are setting up a business like Sarah did, the stakes are higher because there is invested money, there is other people, you have employees at this point, you've got teams, like there's a lot of responsibility to a lot of people. So the stakes are much higher. But I really want people to know that we do this as humans all day, all the time and thinking that it has no impact. And it really, really does have an impact. Not you.
Sarah had the added vision of maintaining the clean crafted promise and the values of the company. But what are the values that you have for yourself and your family and the life that you're building and how do the decisions that you make every day casually impact that? Sorry, I just had to get on my pedestal there because that's a really good lesson. No, I love it.
25:37
I love it. Well, that's the thing about running a business, Gary. There's a lot of opportunity for lessons. You just have to make sure you learn them. I say every day is an opportunity to improve. And so every day is an opportunity to improve, but you can only improve if you actually do improve. Mm -hmm. 100%. Yeah. And I think a lot of times this happens to a lot of entrepreneurs that I talk to. They really get focused on, I mean, I think we all do this as human beings. We get focused on arriving somewhere.
Like the destination of like, oh, I'm transformed. Oh, I'm consistent now. Oh, oh, I've built a successful business. But then the next day you got to do it again. Every single day you have to every single day you got to show up. I love that. Yep. I love that. I mean, one of the, one of the things I've learned in the last few years in particular is, you know, when things get, we talked earlier about.
It's not how you do during times of triumph. It's how you respond after times of failure that define you. Yeah, the recovery. Yeah. Correct. The recovery, the response, the comeback. Comeback is always better than anything that happened before. That's what defines you. Yeah. I think about a couple of examples in the last few years that have made me realize.
I'm like sitting around like feeling sorry for myself when something bad has happened. And then I realized, oh, there's nobody gonna come up and show up and save me and help me in this point. Like we gotta figure this out and we gotta go. So no, no, no knight in shining armor. Nope. You got, well, yeah, there's a knight. Her name is Sarah. You're your own knight. So, okay. So.
What, so that's a lesson. My next question literally here is what have been some of your biggest lessons so far? We kind of started covering that already. Be your own knight in shining armor and don't wait around for somebody else because you can be a knight. And set really high standards. Yeah, and then give yourself permission to not meet them and then learn from that. Yeah. Yeah, let's talk about that a little bit because…
27:54
We are really hard on ourselves. I think entrepreneurs are also notoriously very hard on themselves or just people who are high achievers, goal getters, I think tend to be very hard on yourselves. And as we talked about it, the journey is not linear, right? There's a lot of ups and downs. How did you manage that for yourself when you've had those moments where you're just like, I mean, I'm sure you've had moments like you were like, what am I doing? What am I doing here?
Only a couple a day. A day. You see the journey of an entrepreneur and any kind of business owner, whether your business is small or humongous, there's a flow chart of the journey and the life of an entrepreneur and it shows the day life cycle of everything's perfect, everything's horrible, everything's amazing, everything's horrible. That's the day and the life of an entrepreneur. I saw that. Right?
So I think I manage it in a few ways. Number one, perspective. The bad times are never as bad as they seem, and they won't last. The good times are never as great as they seem, and they won't last. So enjoy both for what they are. Perspective is critical. And I think kind of dovetailing on that, realizing that you're not defined by your successes and your failures. You're defined by the impact that you have on the people that you whose lives you get to touch.
They don't care much about the successes and the failures. I love that. So those are the two things that really help me when it gets really hard. It's like, it's not all about that. And like, how am I impacting people? How am I touching their lives? Rather than from a business perspective, on a personal perspective, how can I make their lives better? I love that. Because at the end of the day, that's why we're here. At least I think so. I think some people get disconnected from that.
It becomes about other things, but I think when they come back to center and they get back connected with the things that really matter to them, impact is always at the top of the list for us. Absolutely. And I think two more things on a practical level when it gets really hard, Gary, because I think people get in these situations and I know I found myself there. Find a way to laugh. And if you can't find a way to laugh, you've got a great subject in yourself.
30:17
And then just just move make move forward in some way whether it's reading something talking to somebody just move forward and it all usually works out. I love it.
I love the you're talking about that it's not as bad as it seems today and it's not as good as it seems, even the good, because we're so addicted to chasing the good. We're so addicted to chasing the win and you're right. Today's win is not tomorrow. It's like, it's going to flee and getting that really allows you to level off so you're not like. Yep. We need to celebrate the chase. It's the chase that's the real, like the thing we should grasp.
That's where our feet are is in the chase. So once we can like be there, then it's really hard. So when I let you know exactly how, if I figured out how to do that, I'll let, I'll call you and let you know, but I'm still figuring it out. You're doing all right. I don't know. But, but I think it's, it's, I love that you said that it's such a good takeaway because we, and I tell people this all the time. It's like, you are not going to, it.
You have to value the journey just as much as the destination. First of all, you may not get there. You may never reach the destination, and so what? And the real thing is, so many people don't even get on the journey. The fact that you're already willing to get in ownership and even get in the game, you're already ahead of the game. You're already doing more than most. So I 100 % agree with you in that it's something to.
That's worthy of celebration, just showing up every day, whatever that looks like, because it's going to be different every day, right? Like your 100 % always looks different too. Absolutely. Well, there's a line from Boz Luhrmann's Everybody's Free to Wear Sunscreen. Oh, yes, yes. Yep. And he says, you know, the race is long and in the end, it's only with yourself. Yeah, it's a really good song, actually. I know. I love it. It's got a lot of gems in it.
32:27
Okay, what else do we talk about my friend? I don't know what else you want to talk about So what's next what do you what are you cooking on what well I want to ask you two questions actually Yeah, what are you like? What what what are you planning next? I mean we talked about the carbon neutral, but I'd love to know what else you have going on that you're that you're innovating in
The other thing that I would want to know is like, what are you innovating about yourself right now? Like, what are the things that you go, huh, I need to work on this thing about me. And like, I think it'd be interesting to look at both. Okay. I'll answer the first one. And then the second one, we are doing a lot of things this year. We are about to launch the spring in conjunction with our B Corp announcement, a program called Clean Crafted Selections. And we're really excited about that.
We're working with like-minded companies across industries that help us celebrate the clean crafted lifestyle and the wine lifestyle, and we'll bring those to our portfolio of products. So think cheese, tequila, glassware, other wines from other partners that kind of bring this lifestyle to life, things that are grown, not made, that are from brands that reflect our philosophies. And so we're pretty excited about that. I love that. Are you finding that, have you found that, like, wait, I know I asked another question.
Have you found that the message has been changing in the industry? Like have you been influencing other or are you still holding that torch? No, well, there's two things going on in the industry right now as it relates to like a better for you, better for the earth type of marketing. There's a trend for more brands to lean into that and actually do that good work, which is awesome. Deliver that kind of product to the consumer, take care of the planet in a variety of ways through certifications, through carbon neutral, all that kind of stuff.
That's great. There's also quite a lot of greenwashing going on. Companies that say they're something, but they're not really. So my challenge and just make sure you're checking, doing your homework, if that's something that's important to you, just know the company, know what you're really getting. So that's one of the things we'll be providing to our customers through this selections program is verified products and companies that really are delivering on a mission product that's better for you and better for the planet.
34:45
And that's delicious. Love it. Yep. And what about you? What are you working on about yourself? I'm a big fan of continuing to learn. I talked about every day is an opportunity to improve, so I better try to do that. So I read constantly. I just try to get better as a leader, but I've also spent the last year. I've got kids and a family. My husband, he works with me, which is a part about myself. I don't actually talk about that much.
And so I have tried over the last year, Gary, to spend a lot more time with my kids and in my, like with my family. And I've been doing a better job of that. So glad it's important because they're going to be there. They're going to be the ones in my hospital bed. I don't think my scouts, our business is going to show up at the hospital where I'm sick. Probably not the business. Hopefully some of your coworkers, but we'll see. But yeah, that's.
It's interesting you're saying that because it's something that I, entrepreneurs notoriously have a hard time with. I've been so bad about it. Yeah. So I've had to really invest energy into it. I'm glad you're getting back to center with that for yourself. That's beautiful. So what are, if you were mentoring, like what's your biggest advice when you're mentoring a young woman?
Like what are you, what are the things that you find yourself going like, all right, here's what we need to work on. And not just when they're starting a business, but I guess any undertaking in life, any, you know what I mean? Yeah, I think a couple of things. I think self -awareness is another really important like superpower that I'm always trying to improve upon. I mean, I think it's a key to success is the more self -aware you are, the more you can.
succeed and navigate through these choppy waters of life. It's like knowing what kind of ship you have, right? To build upon that sea analogy. I don't know how to sail boats, but it works, right? But I think the first challenge to anybody that would mentor is always self -awareness exercise. Where are you weak? Where are you strong? Where would other people say you're weak? Where would other people say you're strong? And then doing a check on that.
37:07
And then a consistency check, like where are you consistent, where are you not? And then a demand to start a starting of something. Because usually when I've mentored people, it's been in a new endeavor and always just start and fail and fail fast. So you can, don't sit around and just plan everything, but starting is key. And then ask for help. Reach out, ask for help, network. Like people are willing to help if you ask, more willing than I think we all remember.
And that's one of the things I found to be true. I love that. There's there's a lot of gold in that. And I love the idea that I love the idea of feeling fast. It's actually something that I was just talking about on my last podcast, because obviously I work with a lot of entrepreneurs. I work with a lot of leaders. And that is a common pitfall where people just sit there and try to think their way through a problem.
And there's a time for that. Like there's definitely a time to reflect and do some innovation and you definitely need to get quiet and introspective at times. And then there's a time to just start. You just gotta get going because the lessons that you need to learn are not. So whenever I'm training people and learning how to sell, I'm like, I can't teach you how to sell theoretically. I need to teach you.
How to sell by you having those conversations and actually failing a bunch of times. And then from there, you implement those lessons. And that's true about anything, right? Not just sales, but those are the lessons that that's where the money is. That's where the value really is. It's in those failures. And it's about how quickly, well, we talked about it, right? The recovery, how quickly you recover and fail fast, fail often.
And yeah, so I love that you highlighted that and I love that you have the consistency check as part of the I talk about it as the integrity check But it's really the it's the same thing But I love the love the language that you're using there because it makes it easier to understand Integrity what was that? But I love the consistency check. I might steal that from you
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Yeah, it's a little softer too. It feels more like a hug than like a sword. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. But with integrity, people often think of it as like morality or like right or wrong or it's like, like that's not what we're talking about. We're talking about your consistency. So I love that. I think consistency is so I think about in sales, I this you teach sales and I see it in our business. I mean, I don't know how many stories I've heard and probably stories you've heard of people.
Starting out on social media like as wannabe influencers and they'll post every day for 18 months. There's one person I know that posted every day for 18 months before they started to get traction in their business. And finally they got like 100 likes and then 200 likes and 300 likes, but 18 months posting every day with like no feedback. But that is so common. Like not in a social media setting, I mean that you are swinging the bat that many times before you have a breakthrough.
Like it very often is what it takes to have that breakthrough. So again, people are seeking this like climb to success, but it really is not like that. You have to do a lot of that grunt work. And what I love about that is that has she been posting?
Once a week or once a month or sometimes on Tuesdays and sometimes on Thursdays and sometimes at nine and sometimes it would not have happened. Nope, it would not have happened. It's the consistency and the work that she put in like without getting any results for a year and a half. They got her the big results. And Steve Jobs said like I know I think it's Steve Jobs. Every overnight success I've ever heard took a long time. Took many years.
Because I think there's this perception that I think is normalizing a little bit, Gary, but there's this perception out there that entrepreneurs rocket to overnight success with no work. And there's such a, that's really, couldn't be farther from the truth. There's so much grind and heartache and tears and failure that goes into any modicum of success. And that part is what's beautiful.
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The little successes comes and goes, but it's all the stuff you learn from all the gritty stuff. Yeah, great. Yeah. And you know, the interesting thing is you don't lose that. Because I, you know, so, you know, I had my coaching business, I closed it to go work for Limelight for five years. And now I'm back relaunching my business. But I have all those lessons come with me, right. So now,
What I did in five years, I'm doing in three, four months because I'm just reactivating all those lessons. So people get afraid of like, oh my God, I have to rebuild or oh my God, I have to start over. I'm like, you're really not. You may be in a way, but it comes so much quicker. Like you have that muscle, you have those lessons. It's like having the breakthrough of balance. You learn how to ride a bike and it stays with you. And
Yeah, you might get on the bike, but you're shaky and you're doing all of that. But the moment you get on and you go through the motions, it all comes back. Your body remembers. So it's such a good lesson. I also talk about the consistent pressure. I like to talk about it as it's like temperature. Like if you're baking a cake, like you may have all the great ingredients, but now you need the temperature to be at a certain consistent setting. If you're moving the temperature around, the cake never rises.
And you need to put that consistent pressure in order to create that chemical reaction. It's the same thing. It's like you have to be consistent with it. I love it. That's interesting. The story I tell that's similar and I want to be mindful that it's like to do with cooking is a different kind of cooking, Gary. I tell it all the time is about the frogs in the pot. You know the story? No.
So, there was a frog in a pot of water and it's sitting on the stove and somebody goes on and turns on the gas burner and it click, click, click and it fires up. And he's sitting in the water and he's just chilling there in the water. And the water slowly begins to heat up and the frog is getting used to it and he's like, oh, I'm in a hot tub. Like this is cool. And he's like chilling and relaxing. He's getting used to the water and he's, the water warms up and warms up and warms up. And before he knows it, he's cooked and dead.
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Cause he got cooked. He sat in the water too long and he didn't get out. There's the second pot on the stove. It's already hot. It's already boiling water. And there's another frog that's thrown into that pot. He realizes immediately that it's hot jumps out immediately. And so the lesson in that is if you're in something that is like bad practices and consistent laziness and you don't like you get used to that, it's eventually going to kill you.
Uh -huh. Because you don't recognize it for what it is. That's the water, right? Whatever it is that you're slowly accepting less work, less consistency, less demanding on lower standards, making less sales calls, doing less whatever it is and you're just getting used to the lower standards, that's the water that's going to cook you to death and going to kill you. Yes, ma 'am. I love it.
Well, Sarah, thank you so much for your time. I know how busy you are. It's been lovely to just talk about leadership and your journey and your lessons. And I just really appreciate the generosity and sharing your wisdom. Thank you so much. you for having me, Gary. I appreciate it. Great to be here. Thank you. I think the key to Sarah's success can be summed up in one word, consistency. Consistency in her practices, consistency in showing up.
consistency in doing the work. And more importantly, consistency in honoring her values, consistency in pushing the boundaries, and consistency in innovating. Now, hearing this may be a little intimidating to most of us when we all struggle with consistency in some way, shape, or form. I think that's because we think of consistency as a place to arrive rather than a journey itself.
Consistency is not a switch that you flip or a decision that you make once. Instead, consistency is a series of countless decisions that you make moment by moment. It's a lifelong practice. We're in such a hurry to get to the destination that we often miss the beauty in the journey altogether. And finding joy and value in the journey is how all of those moment by moment choices get made.
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Those are the moments that end up shaping us and reinforcing our purpose. So today, I'm gonna challenge you. Look at yourself and tell the truth about where you are not being consistent. And without all the judgment and beat up, because after all, this is part of loving the journey, see what choices you need to make differently. And how can you support yourself in developing that consistency muscle?
As always, thank you so much for joining me today. Don't forget to share the podcast with anyone that you think could use the inspiration. I will see you here next week. Thanks for listening to this episode of The Ownership Game with your host, Gary Montalvo. Make sure to like and comment on your favorite podcast platform, as well as subscribe so that you never miss an episode.