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Most of us have been through trauma in our lives. And then we mistakenly think, a lot of us, not everybody, again, the snart hot and fast, that we can just go along and pretend it's not there. And that leadership involves ticking boxes, which of course, let's say in some definitions of leadership, that might be the case. But in the full on version of leadership that I believe you and I are sharing here, it's a lot of authenticity. It's a lot of congruence.
Right? And for that to be, it's the inner world is taken care of as much as the external world.
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Leadership is one of my absolute favorite things to talk about. Not just because it's a passion of mine, but because it's a word that is so often misunderstood, misinterpreted, and even misrepresented.
So for this episode, I thought it would be fun to spar with another leadership coach and try to break down some of the common leadership myths that we so often hear. Colleen Slaughter is a senior executive coach, leadership consultant, and managing partner at Authentic Leadership International. For nearly 20 years, Colleen has been supporting leadership initiatives in Fortune 500 and startups around the globe.
She really knows her stuff, and like me, has a very relatable approach to leadership. Most of all, she's a lot of fun. And I think it's fair to say that we quickly recognized ourselves as kindred spirits.
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I'm so excited to have you on the show, Colleen. It's always fun to have other leadership coaches and just kind of talk shop, right? And compare notes and spar a little bit. So it's going to be fun. Thank you for being here. Thank you for having me. I'm also looking forward to it. And you said, you said as though we were friends talking and I was about to say, actually, I kind of feel like we are, even though we don't know each other that well. So I can already tell we have a lot in common.
Those are always the best interviews when you're like, I feel like I know you from a past life somewhere. I don't know why, but we're friends. That's right. So when did you become interested in leadership? Like, what was your journey like that that became a light bulb thing for you? gosh. Now, if you can believe it, I've never been asked that particular question. So as as yeah, you did it. You asked the question, right?
So here's what I would say. Two big points are coming up for me. One is I've always led my life for the most part based on my intuition. And while that can be in a conversation in itself, that's not my intention necessarily go down that path, except to say that I've had kind of an odd path, meaning there were a lot of people around me that thought I was nuts on several occasions. And so I started understanding.
It took me a long time to see that that actually is the behavior of a leader, right? It's not listening to the crowd is aligning with what feels like the right thing inside and doing it. So without realizing it, obviously, because I told you I'm kind of articulating my answer as it's coming to me now, but without realizing it, I think I really have had a strong desire to help cheer on other people to really listen to themselves and not listen to the crowd.
I mean, my favorite definition of leadership came from one of the founders of my coaching school. His name is Dr. Rafael Echeverria. Hope I'm pronouncing that correctly. But he says that leaders are people who declare possible what other people do not. And that's what makes them a leader. And so that always that stuck with me since I've heard it. So that's one thing is just myself seeing how going down the road that feels right for us, but other people.
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might either been trying to talk us out of it or dissuading us or thinking we're crazy or whatever it is. That's one thing. And the other thing, and it has a lot to do with similar to what I just said, but I noticed that particularly in the corporate world, as an American, I can say when I lived in the States, for sure I saw it, but I actually see it over here in Europe in a different way, which is that it really seems challenging for people to really be who they are, to really express it.
And I said in the corporate world, but I'm even going to go back and correct that for myself. I think it just in our general lives. I mean, I look at myself and this is the world. This is the work I do. And I literally live this work. Like if you come in my home, you'll see my bookshelves full of this stuff. But it was just up until a few years ago that I was the probably the world's biggest people pleaser, for example. So what I came to understand was that wasn't helping anything in the world to say yes. And we need now.
And so for me, that has a big part to do with leadership is really being true to who we are. And sometimes that can be scary. In fact, a lot of times, because it can mean needing to diverge away from certain people, right? And the new crowd hasn't arrived or the new career hasn't arrived yet or whatever that might be. So we're in a waiting zone. But I really believe that these two points.
the fact that I trusted my own gut and see that doing so has led me on a different path. And the fact that I see a lot of people for various reasons, which I completely understand because that has been me too, not stepping up to that. And so both of these have really helped guide me, helped drive my desire to help other people in their leadership. And again, leadership for me is not necessarily a formal role. Yeah.
Yeah, I definitely want to get into that. I definitely want to get into that. But I want to go back to something you said that stood out for me. So you said you're the world's people pleaser, right? Totally can relate to that self -recovered people pleaser here. Exactly. But you were already doing leadership coaching. You were already in this path, right?
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So I love that. I want to talk about that because two things. Number one is one of the misconceptions around leadership that I often have to confront with people is that you're sort of like born this way, right? Like that you're just like the extrovert or the outgoing personality or that you just like, but I'm always like, no, that's not really how that goes. It's not like you're the baby comes out and they're like, okay, we got a leader one here. Put them in the leader category.
It really is not that, right? And leadership is really an act of creation, right? Like we really do have to do the work ourselves to remove all this stuff, right? So can we talk about that a little bit? I'd love to. Well, first of all, I'm with you on dispelling the myth because, you know, I even hear it from people I went to graduate business school with that'll say, is it nature or nurture? Really?
And I do think that we come into the world, all of us, with some unique skills, right? And I believe it doesn't mean from then on that we don't need to hone them or develop them or purposefully choose to use those skills, because we need to do all those things. But I do believe we all come into the world with certain skills. It's like if the betterment of the world were a prism, we all come in at different angles, right? With the ability to do it. Now, we all don't sign up and choose to show up for that mission.
but we're given the tools to do that. That's one thing, all of us. And so in that way, depending on our definition of leadership, right? Meaning, does it have to mean CEO or can it mean Joe or Josephine average, let's say, in quotes, average, I would never really call a person average, but let's say not necessarily in the news, but leading a very life of integrity, doing the right thing, even when no one's looking right, this kind of thing, I would call that person a leader.
So, but the other thing I wanted to dispel and I get that a lot too. I'm actually an introvert. A lot of people are surprised by that. Yeah, you too? Me too. And people are always like, no, you're not. I'm like, I am totally an introvert. I have to rest. I need my quiet time, man. My kids know mama needs quiet time before I'm going to show up in a big way. Like that's totally me. Yeah, that's hilarious. So.
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I get these other awesome, first of all, people surprised. I'm like, look, introvert, there's a misconception. It doesn't mean we don't love people. I love people deeply, deeply. I want mankind or humankind to advance. And for that to be my best self, I need to get my energy up. And so that's the piece that's different. But I have a lot of wonderful souls come to me and they really believe.
that it's only the extroverts that are good leaders because they're the ones speaking up in meetings. I actually have an article on that. You mentioned one of my blogs earlier, but I have one about introvert too, because there's a lot of great stuff we bring to the table. It's not necessarily talking all the time that is leadership. In fact, one could say talking all the time might mean not listening, right? It could be, and it's not a hard and fast rule, but I think the main thing is just being true to who we are and having the courage.
Right, having the courage to walk toward the vision that we have for ourselves and for others. That's the main thing in leadership. To your point, a lot of us then in fact, more than is talked about in mainstream, which shocks me, but most of us have been through trauma in our lives. And then we mistakenly think a lot of us, not everybody, again, the snart hot and fast, that we can just go along and pretend it's not there.
And that leadership involves ticking boxes, which of course, let's say in some definitions of leadership, that might be the case. But in the full on version of leadership that I believe you and I are sharing here, it's a lot of authenticity. It's a lot of congruence, right? And for that to be, it's the inner world is taken care of as much as the external world. So that's where the work comes in, right? The work to stand up and have the honest conversations. Yeah.
or courageous conversations, depending on how we say it, to work on our triggers. Yeah. Right. And to your point, hey, I'm far from perfect. I was absolutely coaching people while still a people pleaser. Right. And there are moments I have to check with myself, am I falling back into old pattern or what am I doing? Right. So it's definitely a journey. It's not a destination, but it starts with that intention. Yeah. And that's what I heard from you is an intention to really step up to the plate in a different way.
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Yeah, and that you can step up without being perfect because one of the, the misconception, another myth is that, this has to be the theme, let's just bust up all the myths. Another myth is that you have to be ready, that you have to have all your ducks in a row, that you have to be perfect in some way in order to now step into your leadership role. But no.
you weren't where you wanted to be or where you needed to be, but you were still making an impact. You were still showing up while you were doing your work. And in fact, one of the gifts of coaching and doing this work is that because we're having these conversations, we get to reflect, right? That we get to, it's hard to be having these conversations with other people without taking a look at yourself every once in a while and saying like - yeah, walking the talk. Exactly, exactly. So -
Okay, why would they follow me if I'm not doing it? Yeah. Right? Yeah. So I want people to really understand that you most of that stuff that you're trying to work on yourself actually gets resolved when you are doing the work that's bigger than yourself. Right. When you're not just sitting there trying to work on yourself, but when you're often for us, it's making a difference with other people. Right. Like when when we're out here in contribution, making an impact.
then you deal, I'll deal with my shyness because I care more about making a difference with people and helping them than I do about my comfort and my introvertedness. Exactly, yeah. So in other words, your value of making a difference or being of service or whatever, not wanting to put that words in your mouth, but one of those sounds like loyalty to one of those values is more important.
than as you're saying sitting in the comfort zone. Yeah, 100%. Absolutely. And that's leadership right there. Yeah. Yes! It's leadership. It's loyalty to a higher level value. Yeah. Over little ol' me ego, which comes out either in playing too small or in playing too big, right? It's all ego stuff. Whereas when I just lose myself into the mission at hand or the purpose at hand, that's what you're saying. Yeah.
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Like for the greater good. Yeah, I love it. Exactly. Yeah. Exactly that. And I think that gives me gives us a good bridge to what you started speaking about earlier. It's another sort of misconception is that to be a leader, you have to be like that. It's about other people, right? That is about.
managing other people, convincing other people, or that you have to have a team, or that you have to have a business, or that you have to be the head of something, or, and very often, what we're talking about here is really your sense of personal leadership. And you can still work on that, whether you have the group to run. Yeah. So you want me to say something about that? Yes, please. Yeah. So awesome.
yeah, well first thing I realized I didn't respond to the part about perfectionism. So, and so let me do that now. Okay. As you were speaking, I knew that wasn't complete. The first thing is I don't even believe that exists. Or let's say it's subjective. And so I might think I'm being absolutely perfect according to my definition, but you might be like, wait a minute, this is missing, that's missing. And someone else might notice something, right? Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And so basically it's a never ending story. It's never going to come true. So.
I, my favorite is Nelson Mandela's view on this, right? And he said, I never lose. I either win or I learn. So looking at everything is learning, right? And what can I do differently each time? And so that's the way, so perfectionism out the window. And I'm just thinking about the faces and the, and the bodies, right? The body language of the people I work with and when even in groups, right, especially in groups, and we create the safety for people just to show up how they are.
Everything changes. Their tone of voice, the way they're looking or sitting, right? Their whole posture, the words they choose when they feel safe enough to make mistakes. And I say mistakes because again, you already got my view. I think everything's for learning. Nobody's doing this perfectly. But the stiffness with which we show up when we're trying to be perfect actually gets in our way because there's no room for being human.
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So I often, and you hear me a lot with values, right? So perfectionism is a value. And I often encourage people, what about going for excellence instead? Because with excellence, I'm going to go take a nap. I'm going to go for a walk. I'm going to be able to mess up. Like my daughter took an entrance exam yesterday for this big program. She'll start in the fall. Mom, I made five mistakes, but four of them I corrected before I handed in. And I go, so you made one mistake. Likely because she's course correcting before. Yeah.
So she had it down, how did it happen in the beginning? So that's what I would say around perfectionism. It doesn't exist. It's about our mindset of learning. The other piece, well, I can say in the programs that I've designed and run and I've learned it from great, great, great facilitators and coaches is it starts with leading self. So first leading self, because I can't give what I don't have.
To your point, if I don't become aware of what trips me up, what gets in my own way, if I don't become willing to work on that for myself, how am I gonna inspire someone else to do that? How am I gonna role model? Because role modeling, as we know, is key to influencing, not in a manipulative way, in a way that's genuine, right? So we always say leading self, then leading team, and then leading, it could be business department, business unit, organization, whatever is the next thing up, right?
but you get the ideas, we go bigger each time. So leadership exactly has to start with ourselves individually. It has to, because then people, like I don't have an official team. I will tell you this. I outsource my assistants, the people helping me, you have their own company, they're wonderful, but I can call them my team, but basically I'm their client, right? It's a little different, but I have people telling me that they follow me, like they followed me for years. So there's not,
a formal team stuff going on here, but that people will follow us, right? When they like what we have, that's the short of it. And when they sense to your point that we're really here to create a bigger something for the greater good, not just about me, me, me, me, right? And so getting over, going into that space for me, me, me to we, we, we alone can be really inspiring. Yeah. But it's a mindset. It doesn't mean we have to have the we, we, we around us to your point. Yeah.
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Yeah, and it just creates a more powerful context for which to live your life by, right? And for me, what it also does, it just puts me in check because it's like, well, I'm a leader. Am I a leader only when I'm recording this podcast? Am I a leader only when I'm working with a client or when I'm leading a training or when I'm speaking? If I say I'm a leader, I'm a leader, right? I'm a leader.
all the time. So when I'm crossing the street, when I'm driving in traffic, when I'm standing in line at Starbucks. And so when life happens, somebody is like, if I have the thing, it's like, OK, somebody cuts you off in traffic and you go and you flip them off or something like that. And then that person is standing in front of you one day in one of your talks. Has that happened to you before? No, it has not. But but it was imagined.
It was one of the ways that I was sort of trained in just having integrity in how I move about the world and always owning that if I say that I'm about making an impact and making a difference, then that creates a bigger context. And it doesn't mean I get to take that hat off when it's inconvenient or when somebody pisses me off at the Starbucks line. It means that I still get to bring all those leadership skills.
and it has me be in integrity with myself. It has me check in. It has me in my handling that situation, how I talk about, is that the best way for me to respond? And you can do that whether you have a team or not, right? Whether you are a leader in a business or not. It's better to practice without a team. Like they say, for example, if you think you're really emotionally healthy, get into a relationship and then you'll see, right? So it's not to bring in romance here, right? But it's a metaphor.
So we think we're living the higher level values. yeah? Let's start working with people and see how it goes. Right? It's the similar deal. Yeah. Yeah. It's like a step upward. First, I need to be able to live with myself, right? In a way that feels good. Yeah. Love it. Okay. Let's switch gears. So you wrote this amazing blog on ownership and I was like, yes. I was like, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes.
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cool. Like I said, I called this podcast the ownership game because I really do believe it's probably the most important leadership distinction. It's like the beginning, right? Of anything that comes before you can access commitment, responsibility, vision. You really at first is ownership, right? It's first really taking ownership of it all.
So let's get in it for you. Let's dive into it. Talk to me a little bit about what your point of view is on leadership and as it relates to leadership. Yeah, well, thank you. Well, for me, ownership is really the third. So leadership is a vast topic. There's a lot we can say about it, obviously, a lot of different tentacles that we can go down. In addition to the fact that leadership is often confused with management, right, which I'm a staunch.
Believer that those are two different things 100 % however, yeah and not to go down that either I've made we were aligned there but With this vast topic of leadership it can be boiled down into three steps really awareness Okay, I become aware of something that I that could be changed It could be from feedback from someone it could be a trigger right a hot button that goes off and I recognize there's a resistance going off for me in that what's happening, right?
something. I become aware. Step one. Step two. I get to make a choice. There's a lot of power in choice. Am I going to do something about it or not? So a few weeks ago in my professional life, I had some feedback. It didn't rent land for me. It just wasn't, I checked in with myself. It does not, it's not true about me. It's not true. Okay. I choose not to do anything about it. Like that's being honest and true to myself, but there are more moments than not, I am doing something about it.
depending if it lands and I realized, yeah, that would be good to get rid of that or move that over. So awareness, choice, and the third one is ownership. And what do we mean by that? Specifically, it's a commitment to practice, right? For me, that's what it means. It means practice what? Well, neuroscience tells us, we know this from experience. It's not because we want to do something differently that we just snap our finger and do it differently. If that were the case, the New Year's resolutions, which sees all,
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which usually sees many, many people going to the gym in January, would have those people also continuing going all year. So you would have as full a gym in January as you do in March, right? And vice versa. But we know that therefore just declaring something doesn't make it so. So we have to take the way to create new habits, as we know, is creating new neural pathways in our brain. They're etching out the neural pathways. And that happens through practice. And why do we need to make a commitment to that?
Because it's boring because we don't get that that what do you call it? Dopamine hit. Yeah. The immediate the immediate reward. Right. You have to wait for the reward. Now when the reward comes, I got to say it's quite delicious because all of a sudden we're in a whole new stage. Right. It's the butterfly becoming the caterpillar. It can never go back to be in the caterpillar. It's a whole new mindset, a whole new way of doing things. It's awesome. But the road to get there can be tedious, can be really boring.
And so that's why it's a commitment of focusing on what's the vision. What's my vision for my leadership? What's the vision for my life? What's the vision for this team, for this organization, whatever it might be. And so owning ownership in that way is really saying, I'm really owning what I want to create here, right? I became aware, I made a choice, and now I'm owning my choice because I really want to make it happen. How many times do we say, yeah, I should do something about that and we never act on it?
Einstein, one of the most more worn quotes I think in the world, right? What's the definition of insanity? So doing the same thing over and over again, expecting different results. Exactly. Or something I saw with my own self recently, truly, because I made a choice to do something different in my business. And I realized similar quote, if I do what I've always done, I'm going to get what I've always gotten. Right? Yeah.
It's not a surprise. So therefore, if we really want to shift, by the way, also, it's around shifting mindset to truly have the transformation going on. Otherwise, if we just shift a behavior with the behavior, as I mentioned with the gym, and we just try to switch out not exercising with exercising, which I've done a million times, right. But what happens there is we lose lust, it loses its luster, right. And we end up dropping the ball. But when we take the time,
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And you said, use the word comfort zone earlier. So when we take the time and develop the willingness to go outside our comfort zone, and I might say not in the freak out zone. So it's not making these huge leaps beyond our comfort zone, but just a little bit. And we're willing to work on shifting our mindset. That's where then the action we take is much more sustainable and the results we have are that much different.
So that's why it's really about owning what we want. What do we want to create and why? And then doing, and that's why that wanting to create peace is the authentic piece, right? And the leadership piece, because it's not about creating something for someone else, if it doesn't resonate for us. So what feels in alignment with what we want to create and then owning that? Does that, yeah? I love that. And I want to...
highlights a couple of things in what you were saying. So part of the ownership is also owning all of it, right? Not just where you wanna be and where you wanna go, but owning where you are and owning the work that you have to do to get there. Right? Because some people just wanna own the fun part, the vision. yeah.
yeah, well that's fun. But it also can be fantasy if we don't put roots underneath it, right? Yeah. And something that you've been illustrating along the way in this interview is that you are a person at work, right? That you are stopping and reflecting and course correcting and strategizing about what are some of the best ways to accomplish
what you're trying to accomplish. And I think that's also important to highlight because another myth is that it's just like you just said earlier, you make a decision and you just go. And I know that it's like this is fallacy with social media now and Instagram that we're obsessed with the final moment, the last chapter in the book, the last scene of the movie, right? The hero standing in the mountaintop talking about how successful.
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my God, look at everything I just did. But we know that there was a lot of crap that happened before that, right? yeah, sure. Well, yeah, and to your point, people put on social media, like exactly the happy moments, but we don't see everything that goes on the other night. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. The other day I was watching, I was watching this video of this couple.
you know, a day in the life of us, right? And it's like, they, you know, they, our kids are off school today. So we went to the gym and we like, we did arts and crafts and we, and today I ended the day by making bread. And I was like, F you man. Like, first of all, you didn't, not once did you mention all your team and all your staff.
Not once did you mention that literally somebody following you with a camera recording you. It's like, come on. It's not. Yeah. And also the consequences. I mean, it's great to spend time like that. Right. But it's like we said, it's always a choice. Then what's not getting done? What's not getting attended to? Right. And I'm not meaning we put our nose through the grindstone all the time. Yeah. But you're right. Of course. Yeah. But they probably it's.
My point is that it's more than just like we had an amazing day. You also had all this stuff in place to make that. To make it easier. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah. Because what happens is people are sitting... There was footwork that needs to be done. Yeah. Because now I know moms that are like, my God, if I'm not ending my day by making bread, I'm not a good mom. It's like, no, come on. But see, that's what I mean also, checking in with ourselves. Like really, that's comparing our insides to other people's outsides. Yes. Right? Yes. And that's the work that...
that being in ownership is also doing all of that work that comes up along the way so that you can reach your destination or your goal, right? That it's all part of it. And also owning that there's a certain divine perfectness in that you are where you are and that it's beautiful that you are where you are. And I get it.
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is not where you, it's not your final destination, but there's something really beautiful about it. There's a beautiful lesson in that. There's something to be grateful in that. And yes, we get to work on what there is to get to work on, but let's also appreciate the moment of where we are, right? We spend so much time just fighting that. Yeah. And I love that. Thank you for bringing all that in. Wow. I love the dubs.
So I hear gratitude, right? And we know that gratitude is the value. I keep bringing in values, but it's a value that most closely associated with joy. So if we want to feel joy more often, one thing to do is indeed to become aware of what we're grateful for. I actually keep a gratitude journal. Seriously, I've done it for close to over 20 years, really. And in the 20 years, there have been periods where I've fallen off and I notice I go into self -pity.
Yes, even a coach who does this work, definitely it is a work. I'm a work in progress, right? Yeah. So I know that when I keep the gratitude going, even when I'm like, there's always something to be grateful for. yes. Right. So that's one thing. And that is a choice. And the other thing, it's funny, I heard today this Dutch phrase. Well, of course, I don't speak Dutch well, except for don't give up, which is thank you. But translated into English, the Dutch phrases man or human proposes.
and the divine disposes. In other words, we can ask, we can wish, but if it's not in our plan in this lifetime, I might add, if it happens, it's not gonna feel right. Let's say it'll be a forced solution kind of thing, right? How many of us have forced something? I used to do that all the time. And it doesn't feel good, right? So to get the high, the natural high, right, we want, it's true. It's better to have that come naturally in alignment. That said,
I also firmly will not only believe, but I've seen it to be true for myself and many people, that when we have that deep wish or that yearning, there's a reason for that, right? It's planted there, I believe, right? Also by the divine that like, this is part of our soul's journey to create more of that to the degree humanly possible. And that's an important thing because very often with my...
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people at Workalice, they gave me two columns. What are the things you can control? What are the things you cannot control? Right? And there's, of course, 99 .9 % of the things go into the cannot control column. The only thing we can control is ourselves. So within that, those guardrails, let's say, what is it that we can do to get to this yearning? How can we help this yearning manifest? And that is the ownership piece. And that's what I hear you say is also within the guardrails of reality of what we can do.
Yeah. And cannot do. One thing we can always do is seek to find the joy in today. Yeah. And the idea, I want to go back to what you said about forcing, because sometimes when we're stepping into our leadership, I know that for me, I was trained initially in this very like, do whatever it takes. If you're committed, you will make it happen. And...
just - That's a common mentality. If it's to be, it's up to me. Sorry, but it's funny. No. Yeah. But I laugh about it now, but I took those mantras very seriously and I was effective with them. I actually got stuff done with them as well. I've had to pull some of that back and bring in this other -
side of it. Some people call it a more feminine side, a more but softer, gentler. Yeah. Yeah, because then what happens is you start to use these distinctions to almost work against you. They start to fall into like a right or wrong into a perfectionist. It becomes... Yeah, there we go. Yeah, it becomes a way to...
It's like you're trying to solve a problem from an old context while you're still trying to be perfect, while you're still trying to not fail, while you're still trying to, yeah. So I do love this idea of bringing in this gratitude and this joyfulness. And it's been a really powerful exercise for me as well to just bring that into my practice as a leadership coach, but also just as a human being working on myself. Amazing. Yeah, amazing to be able to see that indeed. And you know, what you're touching upon,
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something that was really counterintuitive. So when I did start my own personal development journey, I heard about being gentle with myself and I literally started laughing. I slapped the idea away. Gentle with myself. I've got all this stuff to get done. How is that going to get done by being gentle? I was so used to being hard with myself. Yeah. And just to give credit to that part of me, it did get me far up to a certain point, right? I was able to get a lot done in my life.
The thing is, is it stopped working for me that being hard with myself because it was providing or creating the results I didn't want. Like that for solution kind of thing, the hardness with myself, not really liking the version of me that's showing up, which hello, we're talking leadership here. How is that leadership? Right. And so I decided to follow what these mentors were saying and did an easy does it, but do it. And, and what happened was.
not what I was expecting, but I ended up getting done a lot of very big projects by doing a little bit at a time, things like my website. What I would do is turn off my phone, silence my email, focus on getting that done in chunks of time, like 45 minutes at a time, for example. I can multiply that example by so many things in my life. And I realized that if I had had the old approach of beating myself with a stick or...
clogging myself, I would never have gotten it done. But it's because I was being gentle and bringing in more balance, whether that's exercise, sleep, food, whatever that's needed, all of that, that actually went the whole distance and got it done. How many things that I left by the wayside because I would overwhelm myself with this expectation of perfection and in the timeline I wanted it, I thought it should be done. But when I just let go a little bit, right, and let a flow come in, how things shifted.
So I love that you brought that in because it really has actually for me been a game changer. And that whole piece about creating new neural pathways, right? That's exactly how it's done. It's not done in one fell swoop. I think it was Bruce Lee and I might be mistaking on this, but he said, we don't rise to the occasion in the moment of stress, right? It's not like all of a sudden we're gonna be this transformed person. And we look at that as I'm not a runner.
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at all by the way guys. So this is probably not, I'm probably not the right person to be using this. But I would assume those of you who are marathoners listening to this, you don't just start running and all of a sudden you're doing the marathon, right? You're building up, building. And it's the same idea with this stuff, right? A little bit at a time. So Gary, I'm not hearing you. I'm not sure if it's just me or no. What's happening? Huh? Do you hear me though? Yeah, I don't hear you. I don't know why. That's really bizarre. How about now?
Can you hear me now? Now I hear you. Perfect. Yes. Let me just mark that. OK. OK. I accidentally muted myself. I don't know how. That's that's you mean you're not perfect. I can't believe it. If there's anything that you take away from this conversation, please. That idea of building in steps. It leadership really is created and you really do create it step by step. Yeah. And it starts with our relationship with ourselves. 100 percent.
100%. It really does. And it's a practice. It's a practice like everything else, a series of practices. So don't, don't, don't this whole idea that you have to just be a leader, just turn it on. It's not, and it will be tested. Like there are times, there's so many times where you're just like, you're in the middle of it. You're just like, shit. Why did I?
I'm
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a lot of my colleagues and I just want to throw a temper tantrum, which I've done in the past, by the way, I have a total full out of myself. I have it took me years to rebuild trust, right? Trust goes out like a wild horse and like a snail. And now in this time, like I'll be around high rating people. I cannot say what I want to say. I cannot do what would be in my like, it's out of my comfort zone to not. You're right. But that's the beauty of this of this kind of work is.
It's a beauty and it's a challenge is that walking the talk is not always fun. Being a grownup, I like to say for myself, having my big girl britches on. Sometimes I don't want the big girl britches on. I wanna go back to old ways. But I know the consequences and it doesn't lead me to what I want for myself. I remember during the pandemic, I'm a strategist and everybody's coming to me for like, what do we do? What do we do? What do we do? And I'm like,
I don't effing know guys, like the playbook is out the window right now. Like there is no - No present to this. Like I do not know.
And you there's like, OK, take a breath. What are we going to do? What can we do? But that's adaptive leadership right there is acknowledging when we don't know. Yeah. And trying something different. Yeah. Or taking risks or. Yeah. But anyway, that's probably a whole nother conversation. Yeah. It's like that's still leadership saying we have seven seven podcasts right there, the episodes that I'll have you back for.
Okay, fantastic. So as we get towards the end, I want to just take a minute. We've been talking a lot about using this context of leadership to really work on yourself, right? That it really starts with you doing your work so that you can go out there, right? And I think it's a component of doing that work. It's accountability, right? So I want to just spend some time
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talking about that because I do believe that it's one of the ingredients necessary in order to cause any transformation, right? So what are your thoughts on accountability and the role that it plays in your transformation as a leader? Yeah, I love that question. Well, the first thing that comes to mind for me goes with that word commitment earlier. But one of the things that I virtually visually see in my mind is as I say that,
is very often at the end of workshops that we create for leaders, we ask them to make a commitment out loud, but the commitment is to themselves. There's a few things around that, which I know you know this, Gary, but just to put everything on the table and have the clarity for everybody. Our brain understands when we say it out loud, it becomes more real for the brain that this is the way we're going to do things from now on. And it's never I'm going to try, maybe I'll.
perhaps I'll know it's I will or I intend to, right? So that's one thing, saying it out loud in our brain, we're being accountable to ourselves by saying it out loud rather than, yeah, that'd be good. yeah, put that over there in the notebook, back over there. The second thing is we're saying it out loud to our team as a witness. They hear us. So we're not committing necessarily to them, but they hear us, right? And so that's a really big part of it, that just knowing I'm saying it to people.
very often will have me show up. That said, also to add on to that, things like accountability buddies, where we check in with each other. Things like knowing that this is what I've said I wanna create. I'm part of a group now. I have a coach actually helping me grow my business, right? Because I don't have eyes in the back of my head. And so with other women entrepreneurs helping, there's a lot of accountability, like, because we show up every week and we say, here's my weekly wins. Here's what I've done. Here's da da da.
And for a lot of us, it's really important because feeling isolated on this journey is probably one of the most common roadblocks. Feeling isolated, not maybe having questions, not sure how to advance. So that's one thing. Maybe not having what we think are the support we need. The second thing is not making sure we have that support, right? Making sure that we're asking for help, making sure that there are people around us that we can be accountable to. So I think that is absolutely pivotal because again,
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It's not just the destination, as you talked about, it's the whole journey. Yeah. And walking that journey alone, first of all, can be really lonely. And second of all, it can we can a lot of us can lose inspiration when we don't have other people to bounce off how great we're doing, perhaps give us tips, perhaps even inspire us by their own journey. So that's what I would say about it. It's definitely a key step to making sure that what we're owning actually results in what we want it to.
Yeah, and I'm gonna even take it a step further. It's like, it's damn near impossible to create anything without accountability. And mostly as human beings, we try to bypass that accountability. We - Yeah, well, it's the perfectionism again, right? Yeah. And if you - What if I didn't do it? Yeah. And if that accountability for me, it's like, I always use the analogy of baking a cake.
You can have the right ingredients. It could be delicious. But if you don't turn up the temperature on that oven, the cake doesn't rise. It doesn't bake. And that accountability is the temperature is what brings the heat to cause the chemistry of the transformation. So whatever goals you're up to, whatever you're trying to accomplish it, absolutely create accountability. And it doesn't have to be hard or beat up. It should be light. But tell somebody, I even tell moms, like you want to hold, tell your kids what you're doing.
put it up on the family refrigerator and say, hey, mommy's doing three sales calls today, put it up there and they'll ask you, they'll hold you accountable. I like that, that's cool. Yeah, and this ties into what you were saying earlier, right, or what we've been saying, like easy does it but do it, it's one thing, right? But I was thinking about this, is like, this whole idea of not having to be perfect. So there's a group of women that say, that I,
working with and among, and they say, mediocracy makes millions. Or mediocrity, I guess. I don't know which way to pronounce it, to be honest. There's my vulnerability for you. But the point is, done is better than perfect. We can often procrastinate because we're afraid we're not gonna do it right. It's not gonna be the absolute best. And very often, building the plane as we fly it is the way to do it, right? Is just put it together and just do it. That's the only way I know.
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It's the only way exactly because we create creation literally is is it doesn't exist yet. So we're creating it right. So therefore, yeah, we just do it. And by chance, do you know the percentage of time an airplane is off course? No, this is I think so helpful. Really? So an airplane is, of course, 80 percent of the time. Really? Now, I did not read this in a science journal. This is the caveat. I am not an engineer, so there might be engineers listening, please.
It is the spirit of the law rather than the letter what we're talking here. But the idea is obviously whatever the real percentages, let's say it's 80. That's what I've read in one of my books. Imagine 80 % of the time we're going to get back on course. Yeah. Right. It's only 20 % we're locked in more or less. Right. But basically most of the time we can expect that we're veering one way. OK, cool. So just get back on track.
It's like sailing when you're sailing the the the mask is the wind and the tide are always pushing you off course and you're so you're constantly correcting and coming back. Exactly. So it makes total sense. And it's OK to rest. It's OK to rest. There's a cool Chinese proverb to about this. It says you can go as slowly as you want so long as you do not stop something like that. Yeah. And I love that. Yeah, I love that too. Well, Colleen, it is this is so much fun.
That was fun. I had a good time, Gary. Seriously. Yeah, me too. Me too. Thank you. Thank you so much. It's been lovely to connect with you and just to banter back and forth about leadership. I think you're lovely and I hope you come back on the show and banter some more. I would love to. Indeed. Yeah, let's do it. It's much pleasure. Awesome. Awesome. And thank you to all your listeners. It was a joy being part of this conversation. Look forward to more.
Well, we'll put your information in the show notes so people can connect with you and reach out and all that good stuff, okay? Cool. Look forward to it. Have a great rest of your day. You too, my love. Have a great weekend. Talk soon. Okay. Bye. Ciao. Ciao.
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If you Google the word leadership, you will get over 6 .4 billion results. That's 6 .4 billion videos, articles, blogs, podcasts, and websites, all sharing their opinions on the subject. And though I'm sure many of them will overlap or agree on some things, you will find just as many that don't. I think a reason we're so confused on the subject is that leadership is one of those things,
that can look very different depending on your socioeconomic background, your culture, geography, or life experience. I don't think we often acknowledge and make room for this enough, if at all. Leadership is not monolithic. It's a self -expression of what matters to you. So at the end of the day, no one can really tell you how to lead but you. But that's not really what's taught about leadership. I mean, the reality is that leadership is just not taught at all, at least not here in the U .S.
You may have experiences that teach you leadership, like being president of a club or captain of a team, but in general, it's not part of a learning curriculum and not a conscious part of most students' development process. These systems can create an information vacuum. Sure, someone will always rise to the top and lead, but this only perpetuates the myth that leaders are born.
How often do you see someone get promoted on merit and now they're responsible for leading and mentoring other lives without any real guidance, support, training, or experience? What if we treated leadership like what it is, a skill that is developed and practiced daily? What if our educational curriculums included programs that encourage self -awareness, critical thinking, and the importance of being oneself?
What if we taught our kids that everyone is a leader, not just the ones that can throw a ball or charm the room? Leadership is the most important thing that we can learn in life. Not for its ability to influence others, but because it's necessary to lead yourself. Understanding your values, being true to your convictions, taking risks and going for what matters to you in life are all leadership qualities. Having a difficult conversation, showing vulnerability in a relationship,
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and choosing to believe in yourself against all the odds and evidence are all leadership qualities. Leadership is at the heart of it all. Leadership is that superpower that you can access regardless of title, rank, and experience. And it's time to get an ownership of it. As always, thank you for joining me this week. If this message resonated with you, please, please, please share the podcast with two or three people in your life.
Together we can share this message and help more people step fully into their leadership. I'll see you next week. Thanks for listening to this episode of The Ownership Game with your host, Gary Montalvo. Make sure to like and comment on your favorite podcast platform, as well as subscribe so that you never miss an episode.