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So much compassion too for the person that doesn't know what to do or what to say because nobody teaches you this. Nobody teaches you how to live life, you know, after someone you love is no longer in this world with you and nobody teaches you what to say.
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We've explored the subject of losing a loved one a few times on the show, but we haven't really explored the subject of grief itself. Grief is not something that is often discussed or talked about at least not here in the United States.
So when it happens, we're mostly unprepared for it. And as we get into today, at times we're unsupported in it. Today, we sit with my old friend, grief coach, Catherine Burrito. After meeting the love of her life, Catherine lost him seven years later to cancer. She was a widow at the age of 35.
Her journey through grief was painful but it taught her a lot about how people in grief are supported and the way that they're not. Through her coaching practice and her hefty social media following, she's on a mission to give thousands of people validation and permission that it's 100 % okay for them to grieve their way.
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Hello, my love. It is so good to have you on the show. You know, it's so exciting because we've been friends for a real long time. We met in our 20s in New York. I think I was a little older than you. I might have been a little bit in later 20s. I think you were in your early 20s. 20s. But, you know, it was like that time in our lives when we are like trying to find ourselves, trying to, you know, have fun and...
And I think most of all, we were trying to find love. Right? Like we were kissing a lot of frogs, if you will, trying to find the one. Yes, yes, yes. What a hunt. What was that? Said what a hunt. What a hunt, right? There were many parties, many parties were epic.
I do miss my parties. My parties were a lot of fun. A lot of club nights, lot of hanging out, lot of restaurants, a lot of birthdays. Yeah, was a lot. We spent a lot of our formative years together growing up and trying to find ourselves and trying to find love, right? And so we kissed a lot of frogs, as I said earlier. So...
And you finally found it. You finally found your guy. Tell me about Tony. I actually don't know the story because I had already left New York. So I don't even know how you met Tony. So I'm excited to hear the story. You know, we met super classic at a bar. He sent over a drink for me. Really? Very classic.
I just, got to this bar that my old roommate used to bartend at. So I used to go there all the time just to get like free drinks and free game before going to where I really was going to go. And it turns out that I got there 10 minutes after he did. And then when I left, he left five minutes after he, it was his first time in Queens and he was there for a party of a friend of his that wasn't even there. It was in the Bronx. So I don't know how he went from Jersey to Queens to get to the Bronx.
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And that was his very first day ever in Queens, the night that we met. And it was at all places, that place. So he sent a drink over. I looked over to see if he was cute first. And I was like, yeah, I'll accept. And then I went over to thank him. And it was history from there. my God. I love it. So so OK, so it gets you a drink. You start talking. What struck you about him? What? He was cute.
Like what stroke you about him? What? He was a musician and you know, I'm obsessed with music and you know, musicians and he just started talking about like, I play the piano, I play the guitar, telling me all about the things that he likes to do. And I lied and said I was a musician too, trying to impress him. I was like, yeah, I play the piano too. my God. And you know, but just, my God, he was so gentle and kind and sweet and like.
Just everything, his energy, his aura, like his eyes. I was just like hooked from the minute I walked up to him and I was like this close and you know, it was like this instant connection. Yeah. Okay. So what happened next? We went on a date a week after and it was, we were like inseparable from there. We went, our first date was a movie, I'm sorry, dinner and a concert. And then we were just like.
back and forth, Jersey Queens, Jersey Queens, and seeing each other all the time. it was once it wasn't, and it wasn't one of those things like, okay, so are we together now? Like it just happened. We were like just all of a sudden we met all of a sudden in a relationship, moved in, got engaged, got met, like everything just happened organically. So how long before you met and you moved in together and you got engaged? So we met in 2010.
November 2010, in September of 2012, we moved in, got engaged two years later, got married a year later. OK, OK. So wasn't like, know, because, know, some of us, some of us have done the whole like three months later, we're engaged and all things. So that's OK, too. OK, awesome. So then you're you're building this life together and
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Tell me, you know, like, I guess for me, like, where's your head at? Because you, you know, you went from like the single lifestyle to now this and you're building a home. It's like the dream in many ways, right? Is it things that you've been aspiring to and now you're building your home and your life. And what was that like for you? Tell me a little bit about that. It was crazy, Gary, because it was the only healthy relationship I had up until.
Like you were saying about kissing the frogs and I was in other relationships that were just very, you know, you're in it, you know this isn't it. remember. You know, going through the motions. I remember.
It felt like it honestly my entire relationship felt too good to be true. It really did. I felt like it wasn't I was like, how is this possible? How are you like perfect for me? Like I couldn't have designed you better than this. Like it was it really felt like really just unbelievably perfect for me. And we were just, you know, we were perfect for each other. And it just felt like I was living the, you know, we would call ourselves the notebook sequel. And he would say ours is better because ours is like
You know, they've got nothing on us. And, you know, like it was just so amazing, Gary. He was really the whole cliche, my best friend, my favorite person, all of it. was really to the 10th power. So it felt like, like I said, it felt too good to be true. It was the first time I experienced that with a man. Yeah. You know, I didn't have to force anything. I didn't have to try. And it was just like this man saw me. I didn't have to say like, I'm worthy. See me like it was just unbelievable. Yeah.
Yeah, well, I'm so glad you said that because so I didn't get to spend a lot of time with Tony, but the thing that that I remember is like he just adored you like he had like he saw you as the queen you are and he held you like, you know, in that place and every interaction that he had with you was from that place of like just honoring you and it was really beautiful. It was really, beautiful. you. Yeah.
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And then life life'd. Yep. you know, did the thing. So when did you guys like tell me a little bit about how you discovered that he was sick and how did that all come about? It was very sudden. He one day he just woke up with liver pain and it just it wouldn't go away. And then the next day the pain was still there. Then the next day. And I said, baby, you to get this checked out. This is not.
not going away, something's got to be going on. The last thing I thought was cancer. I'm thinking like maybe it's an ulcer, maybe it's a stomach bug, who knows. So yeah, he gets it checked out and then gets the tests and they said you have stage four cancer. Stage four. it like, just like that. you know, he was misdiagnosed too. Like first they thought it was colon cancer, then it was another cancer. so we were like in and out of doctors' offices trying to figure out what...
cancer this really was and it wasn't only until like three days before he passed that they said this is a neuroendocrine tumor, that he was properly diagnosed like that late into it. But it happened quickly. He passed away less than five weeks after being diagnosed. It was really fast, really aggressive. He declined really like day and night. So that was really hard because it was so much going on and Tony was really strong man.
carry a couch on his shoulder up and down a third floor. And he got to the point where I had to tie his shoes for him. He couldn't bend down. He couldn't walk. So it was just so much. he deteriorated that quickly. Big time. The last week, he barely even spoke. Barely. Every time he tried to speak, he'd just cough. So he barely said anything. He deteriorated rapidly. just like this cancer ravished him. Wow.
Yeah, so what was going on with you? Because I would I just try to put myself in your shoes for a second and just like the I mean, you don't five weeks. You don't even have time to wrap your head around it. You don't even have time to prepare mentally. You don't even have time to like nothing. Like it literally is like a blip, a blip of time. Absolutely.
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I was, and then for me, it was, I was in massive denial, which was, I then figured out that was my brain's way of protecting me, going through that because I didn't, as much as doctors were telling me, you have to prepare yourself. He could go any minute, like all these things. I was just like, no, he's going to be fine. And I, I just didn't believe he was dying until he was actually dead in front of me. So for me, it was like even
more traumatic because I didn't I went through all of those motions after he passed and it was just, you know, it was extremely shocking. All the things I felt so many emotions, all in 10 emotions in each breath, if you will. Yeah. What what do you remember most from that period? I remember how much he wanted to be with me.
Like in the hospital, he has two children from a previous marriage and when they live in California and when they came to see him, like I would leave the room just to give them privacy. And they would text me, hey, dad wants you to come back. Can you please come back? like, even when he was only at home one night, that same night that he came home, he died. And as the paramedics were bringing him in, he was like, where's my wife? Where's my wife? And like, he just always wanted to be with me.
You know and and I'm very grateful now of the way that he got to die in our home He died right here in our living room and I was holding his hand I was asleep but I was holding his hand and I know he knew I was there and like I I remember that and I'm so grateful for the fact that I had that because you know Not a lot of not a lot of people. Yeah. Yeah, so you
At that point, you knew that he was passing and so you guys just brought him home to pass with you. Is that what was happening? So, no. No. I I still, Gary, I did not. But you didn't. but the doctors and him. yeah. OK. He was only in hospice one night only because they said we need to make sure he can make it through the night and be able to even travel in an ambulance and not die in the ambulance.
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Like that's how weak he was, but I didn't, I already had a care plan in mind. had my mom fly in from DR and we were going to take care of him, get a nurse. Like I saw him breathing three breaths per minute and I was just like, why is he breathing like that? That's weird. So like I saw him literally die. I had no idea that it was happening. So even, even cause he was asleep for.
a long time and I fell asleep next to him and since my mom knew he was going she told me go to sleep if he needs anything I'll wake you up well she knew she knew too she told me to yeah she told me go to sleep so I pulled up the couch next to the bed and I just held his hand and I fell asleep next to him and when he passed she woke me up so she was awake watching him to make sure she could get the exact time for me wake me up so when she told me that he died I was like what and I I like put my hand on his chest
and then I didn't feel the heartbeat and I put my ear on his chest and I didn't hear it. And since that's how I fell asleep with him every night, I would say to him, you're my white noise machine. When I didn't hear his heart beating, that's when I was like, my God, Tony died. Like that's when I realized it. It's crazy. Like from beginning to end, I was in so much denial. So, okay. So what happened next? So after that, was, know, my life was a nightmare. I couldn't work.
My mental health declined beyond belief. I blew my life savings, our life savings. I just supported myself with what we had. I'm a massage therapist before being a grief coach. couldn't focus on anything. I just, you know, I had a lot of support. So like, I want to say that first. did, my friends and family were amazing. But of course, try as you might, if you don't know.
what this feels like or what's going on. And you just don't know what to say and you say the wrong things. So I just kept hearing, give it time, you'll feel better. And you're so young, you're gonna meet someone. Like all these things, I know they meant well, but the worst thing for me was hearing, just give it time, it'll get better, it'll get better. And like, you have to move on. And I didn't know any other widow. I was so young, I was 35. I turned 36 a month after he died.
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He was 46, he was super young too. And so I was like the only widow I knew and I joined my first support group three years later because a friend randomly told me, why don't you join a Facebook support group? And I was like, what? I didn't even know that existed. So I logged onto this group and everybody there was saying the same things I was feeling like, my God, I wish people would stop telling me this and that and I feel this and that. And I'm like, too.
So that's kind of how I got started into, that's what got me going into coaching, to be honest. The fact that I said, there's so many people that feel like me and there's not enough spaces where these people are supported and they're like allowed to feel what they feel and just, you know, that's what got me started with wanting to create that space. Yeah, it's interesting because, I mean, I don't know if this is true everywhere in every culture, but I think it's true.
in American culture and Dominican culture where our parents are from, that, you know, there's not a lot of space for grief, right? Like grief is something that's not really, I mean, I don't remember talking about death. I don't remember, you know, certainly a mourning. So I think it's the type of thing where people just are really uncomfortable.
being with and dealing with and certainly I've had the experience of someone, I know losing someone and me not knowing what to say. Like what can I possibly say in this moment to provide anything, right? And so.
But then I get focused in my own discomfort about the fact that I don't know what to say, I don't know what to do, and I'm uncomfortable with that. And so now I start acting weird with the friend or, you know, the loved one. And even, then you start saying things like that, I think. Like, just give it time, time will pass or.
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or it'll get better or which, what does that mean? And do you even want it to get better at that point, right? Because I would imagine when you're part of getting better, it's like, may feel somehow like you're disconnecting yourself from the person that you're losing, right? 100%, 100%. And to your point, like, it is hard to know what to say unless you've experienced it. And then, you know, it's...
The natural inclination for a human to see someone suffering is to want them to stop suffering. You like you want them to feel better. That's so normal. The thing is that we don't know that in grief, that's the exception to the rule. You know, like, and someone in deep grief would rather you say, listen, I don't know what to tell you. I have no idea what this must feel like for you, but I can imagine this is awful. I'm here. I love you. Take all the time you need. Do whatever works for you. Do whatever feels good to you.
your feelings are valid. That means everything, like everything. you know, just a little, and it's also, makes sense that grief is uncomfortable for someone because there's so many things. I was definitely afraid of anything related to death. I couldn't even see a dead body in a movie prior to Tony dying. mean, you couldn't see your husband dying. Right. Like, you want to get deep about it, like you couldn't even see that,
That yes, also subconsciously I feel that too, that fear was there. And then with him, I like threw myself on his body. I kissed him. was like, I cut some of his hair off. Like I was, changed him before he went to the morgue. Like I did all these things. It, so like I have such a different relationship with death now, but I became a little bit obsessed with death and wanting to know everything about it and the afterlife and what's a possibility, this and that, but.
Just all that to say that I have so much compassion too for the person that doesn't know what to do or what to say because nobody teaches you this. Nobody teaches you how to live life after someone you love is no longer in this world with you and nobody teaches you what to say or what's... You just go along and you learn that. And it's very unique because what may help me per se, for example, I don't like when someone says he's in a much better place.
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because for me, the best place for him to be is here with me. But other people are like, yes, he's in a much better place that gives me comfort. So there's also that piece. Every griever is just different. Yeah. OK, I want to go in a bunch of different places with you. But you said something interesting that caught my attention. You said you dove into learning about the afterlife or what happens after death or...
Like what do you think that was about for you and anything you discovered that you want to share? Yes, for me, Gary, honestly, it was was settling for second best, which was if I couldn't have Tony, which was my everything, the best of the best. Second best would be remaining connected to him and still being able to feel a connection to him.
just be with him. I remember saying out loud in our bed, I sat down, I don't know, this was maybe a month after, and I said, I want you to please always let me feel you. I wanna feel you around. I wanna get signs from you. I wanna, if any of this hokey stuff is real, I want you to show me that it's real. I don't care what the books say. I wanna know from you. And I've gotten so many signs from him since that there's no doubt in my mind there's definitely an afterlife.
I don't know what it looks like. don't know. Are we just energy floating around? I don't know, but it is very real. And it's also a belief. I'll say that too. Like if you don't believe in it, that's also your truth. And that's totally fine as well. know, like, but for me, that's, that's what's wanting to continue a bond with him. And I discovered there's a theory continuing bonds and I didn't even realize I was doing that. Like I write him letters. I talked to him. I do all these.
Regularly now this is still yeah, we should actually stop like how long has it been since you lost Tony at this point? February will be seven years seven years. Okay, okay seven and you're still And you're still in a relationship with him. It sounds like you're still writing him letters including him in your life You're still speaking to him Yeah, yeah, I do little rituals like I wrote a list down of
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every movie he loved and I watched them like once a week. I watch one movie and every Christmas I watch his favorite Christmas movie on our anniversary. I go to our favorite restaurant and I order his favorite meal and just all these little things that make me feel more connected to him. And at first that was really hard to do, but now I can now I do it and it's so comforting. So, that was the question that came to me the moment you said that was number one.
Is that healthy? Like, are you reliving pain? are you... And then the other thing is like, is that keeping you stuck in the past? Is that like, do you feel that you have moved on? And I don't know what that means. Like we should talk about that because in some ways you're still very much part of your life. know, right? what does moving on look like, I guess, also?
You know, I say continuing on with him, you know, because like I am so as you know, I'm repartnered, I'm engaged and that was that happened. I met my current partner two, two and a half years after Tony died. And then a year later, we were official. I took my time. really I dipped my toes into it. And so it was it was it's interesting because I did my my therapist.
The very first therapy session I had was like two years after he died. And she said something very interesting to me and she said, you're not a widow. She's like, you aren't a widow actually yet. And I'm like, what do you mean? My husband died two years ago. She's like, no, you're not a widow. You haven't packed his clothes from the closet. You haven't removed his toothbrush. You haven't removed his shoes. You haven't done anything. He's like, you are waiting for your husband to come back.
you're still married to him. You're still his wife. He's just not in your home. But you don't see yourself as a widow. So you still see yourself as that you are like your husband just is maybe away on a business trip and he's coming back at some point. And I didn't even realize that because it's true, Gary, even when I was even when I met my current partner, I was with him for a year and I hadn't I didn't remove anything of Tony's until two years ago, until four years later. Like his shoes where he last left them were still there.
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everything in his drawers, like everything. And I didn't even realize when she said that it hit me. There's a piece of us that we have to let go, not let go of them, not let go of the love, not let go of any of that, but let go of the hope that they're coming back in physical form because they're not. that's, I struggled with that for a long time. Like I would look at the stairs, truly hoping he would come up the stairs magically.
So that's what shifted a lot for me when she said that and I realized, because I was afraid that if I let go of the fact that he really isn't here anymore and he's not coming back, that like you said, that I would just go on and forget him. it hasn't honestly, my relationship with Tony is so beautiful in a way that, because he was 11 years older than me. So I understand now that I'm in my forties, I understand a lot of things that he was going through and a lot of things that he.
experienced and I'm like getting to know him in a whole other way and like I just our relationship I if it makes any sense I love him even more now because I'm just like I'm holding on to him but not like this but like this like just you know yeah it's he's such a part of me the holding on feels more like like an honoring yes not necessarily like you know because that's because you moved on right like you
You started a new career, helping other people. You have a new fiance. So there is definitely this is not someone who's still holding on, but he's still very much a part of your life. something I'm curious about is your your new your fiance. How is he with the fact that you're still so close to Tony? And and I seem to remember that you.
Did you do what ceremony spreading Tony dashes and he was there or something like that? Like I remember that he was part of that. Like he was next to you and it wasn't like a big thing. It was just like an intimate moment with you and your fiance actually honoring Tony's, know, like tell me about that. Cause I'm curious what it's like for him and how you've navigated all of that. Yeah. So I was very honest from the very first day that we met.
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He didn't believe me that I was a widow because he's like, you're a widow, you're so young. And I'm like, yeah, I am, I swear. He's like, you know, I think of a widow and I think of someone that's like in their eighties or seventies. So I did tell him, I said, listen, I know that this is going to be very hard because let's be honest, it is challenging. know, it's, it's, I told him, you're not a replacement. You never will be. My relationship with Tony was my relationship with him. And it's mine with you is mine with you, but.
He is a forever part of me and that isn't going away. And I want you to, if anything feels uncomfortable or you have any questions or you don't understand something, ask me anything, anytime. And I explained to him like what my relationship was like and what all the things I went through afterwards and all the changes. And I said what you said, I said, this is an honoring. I said, I know I was able to recognize love in you because I...
got to know it through him. He was the only man that ever truly loved me. And if I didn't have my experience with him, I wouldn't have been able to recognize this is real love when I found it with you. And anytime I do anything with honoring him, like his birthday, yes, I went to DR and I spread some of his ashes. I told him, you don't need to do this with me. I understand this can be an uncomfortable thing. I'm doing this, but you don't have to be a part of that. I won't feel bad.
And he said, no, I want to do everything with you. want to be a part of you. I think it's beautiful that you honor him. And I think it's amazing that, you know, after all the bad relationships he went through, you actually found someone that loved you the way you deserved. And he's like, and I want to honor him with you. So he said for him, it's also like a little at first he felt a little guilt because he said, you know, like the worst day of your life, you know, was in a way meeting you was the best day of my life. So it's like something so
Awful and horrible happened in your life and meeting you is the best thing that happened to me. So he's like, I just he's like, I'll always owe it to him to have met you. So he just felt like it was an honor for him as well to like honor him with me. Yeah, that's beautiful. Were you were you were a grief coach at this point? When I met him, yes. So I was was well, I was still in training. I started my training. I started. Yeah, because I because they just felt like
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such a mature, loving conversation while honoring what you needed, honoring Tony and honoring your new partner. Like it was just like a real, so I was just curious where if you were being guided completely by instinct there or if you were already had some like, know, obviously you had your experience that that's not gonna go away. But I was curious to see if like you had already started your path to become a grief coach because
that conversation seemed like it had a certain level of mastery, you know, in it. it honestly came from like me knowing because once I once when Tony died, I knew instantly that pain would be with me forever. I knew that I said no amount of time, no amount of anything, no amount of work that I did would take that away. Yes, I have expanded myself to hold it fully and be with this pain and live a rich, full, meaningful life again. But the pain is still
vividly there. It just looks different, but it's still there. So I knew it wasn't going anywhere. And I also knew I wanted my current partner to feel as important and as number one as he is in my life as well. I just didn't want him to feel like he's a replacement or backup or none of that. But also that my relationship with Tony and my continued bond also has, like they both have to coexist.
And it can be a beautiful thing like it is, you know, and it's just I always communicate with him though. And it's I said if there's anything ever that's uncomfortable, tell me always. You know, it's so important. Yeah. OK, so let's transition to what had you take all of this and decide to become a grief coach, because, you know, one instinct could be like, OK, I've had enough grief in my life.
I'm done, let me move on, or I've had enough pain. But there's something about becoming a grief coach almost that I don't want to say that you are diving into more pain, because it's not really your pain, but obviously it can be uncomfortable when you're supporting. A lot of the work that you do is emotionally heavy. You're a hero for me. I just coach people on their business.
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But what made you want to dive into that in a deeper way and do that work with people? It was really, thank you for asking that, because it was, it really was seeing in that support group how many, it was the first time that I was around other grieving people. seeing that so many other widows felt like I did, like, but I don't want to let go of my husband. I don't want to not live.
this life somehow with a piece of him in any way. Like, I don't want that. And everyone's telling me that I have to. And that's what really got me thinking, you know, we don't have to. And I want to tell you, because I've proven to myself first and everyone else around me that I can still exist in this life with Tony's memory and carry him forward with me. And I don't have to leave anything behind. And other people just, they never even heard of that. They were being told, if you
think of your person even, you're stuck. You're not. So it was just this, said, you know, this is not, there's so much misinformation out there and there's so much, there's like a very limited view and like there's so much phobia of grief and so much illiteracy and all these things. So I, as you know, I'm just like an empathetic person in general. So like whenever anyone's in pain and I can help out in any way, especially with the, how specific and grief, like I said earlier, it's
it's the exception to the rule. It doesn't go away, but it needs to be held and it needs to be witnessed and it needs so many things that there's just very few spaces where that can happen. you know, there's 700 million widows all over the world. there's just not enough spaces to hold everything. And so I wanted to create a space for other women that felt specifically like I did because there are...
To your point, there are a lot of widows that are like, don't want to be around this. I don't want to deal with this. I want to be the furthest away as possible. But for me, leaning into it and being in it was actually what was comforting because it kept me connected to him. And in helping others, it's really been so helpful for me as well. Say more about that. Yeah, because it's so isolating.
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you know, this whole grief experience. as much as you have, like I said, support from friends and family, they don't get it. So their support is very limited. But then having a community of other grieving souls, like there are things that happen and things that come up for me, for example, that I can't text my friend about, my friend of 20 years, because she's just gonna, I know she's gonna say the last thing I wanna hear. But I have my friends, I have a really great friend that I met on TikTok.
And she's one of my closest friends and she's a widow as well. And I always text her and I tell her how I'm feeling and this came up for me and we talk it out and I feel so comforted and I feel like I have that release. And so it's just. But for you, because what you said is that the process of you helping others has also been healing for you. So like what.
Talk a little bit about how you, when you're working with your clients, how does that, how has that been impacting your grief? It's impacting it because I see that they, I see myself so much in them and what they're going through. they, since I'm much further out than them, like most of my clients are like the first couple months or the first year, maybe even two or three.
And it's so helpful because it just, reminds me too, like I, the further away that I get from the timeline of when everything happened for me, like the place of my grief that I am in now is holding onto all these limited memories that I have with Tony because I'm making so many new memories with other people still in my life and new people that I meet, but my memories with him are so, so limited, right? So I listened to these stories and it reminds me of things that I had forgotten.
or not so much forgotten, but I just hadn't thought about. And then it brings up stuff in me and then I recall a new memory and then I write that down and I relive that. I like, it's just like really nice to hear other stories that I can relate to so much. And like the love, like this deep, profound love. And it reminds me of my own love. And it brings up stuff for me, like in the most beautiful way. Sometimes it brings up a lot of, you know, the trauma too, but I have the tools to process that and to be with that.
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But it's just healing happens in community, know, and we, the grief community really needs each other. Like we just do, we need that space really, because grief is so layered, you know, and it's, there's, I'm sure five years from now I'll uncover a new layer and I'll need my community then too. So. Well, I think you said something really important because, I mean, I think in general, when we're struggling with something, our instinct is to go off and
handle that on our own, process that on our own. I think grief is even more so, right? Because you, it's just a much bigger trauma, but also not everybody gets it or people are trying to be helpful, but then they end up not. So then you probably end up isolating more than normal. So I think the idea that of getting support, getting community, getting, you know, therapy, a coach.
it's really important because you don't have to do that alone. And obviously when you're ready, Like when you're everything in its step. So you've got this incredible resource on your website. It's the 10 things you wish you knew or you wish somebody had, or the things that nobody tells you about grief, right? You know, let's, we could spend weeks just talking about that, but.
Let's pick the top three, right? For those people that are grieving, let's give them like three tidbits of support that you discovered in your process. Yes. The first one I would say for me was all the platitudes that you would hear. Most of them are well-intentioned, of course, but they are very hurtful and they're actually, I don't want to say the word dangerous, but they are really, it can cause, it can put...
make you go down and even further rabbit hole because it just dismisses what's true for you and it invalidates what's true for you and it makes you think that something's wrong with me because this is not so all the platitudes that I was hearing left and right. this is like, it's going to get better. You have to move on. You're you're, know, he's in, you know, like you, you, he would want you, he would want you to be strong right now. Like all those types of statements, right? That's what we're talking about.
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Yes, especially like, you know, at this time frame, you shouldn't be doing this and that, or you should be X and Y. So then it makes, if you're not there, it just makes you feel like something is wrong with you. And then it just, it sets off a whole other set of things. So all those platitudes I speak on a lot about that and how to kind of manage that and the cognitive changes, huge. There's so many things and there's so much shame around the cognitive stuff. Like I couldn't read a sentence.
In a book, if I love a book, I can read it in a week. For two, three years, I couldn't read a sentence without forgetting what I just read. One or two sentences. Like so many things that the trauma does and that happen in the grief that are completely normal. Our personality changes, some are temporary, some are permanent. The things that I used to do before that brought me joy no longer do, or things that I was okay with, I don't want anything to do with anymore. It's just so many different changes and you don't.
so many grievers experience it and there's so much shame around it because nobody's talking about it. So I just wanted to normalize that as well. And also how much the world will rush you to get to a certain place, you know, that they think you should be in. And it's that's the biggest thing. Like eight out of 10 widows and grievers reach out to me saying that to me, like, why are they telling me to get to this place already and to do this and to do that? And I'm just not there. And I don't know.
how to do that and they're, know, sort of like going through so many emotions and so many changes and just so much of such a big process. And then it's like, tidy it up and brush it under the rug, you know, and it's, it's just makes everything 10 times harder, which I'll bring to your, you mentioned something earlier, I totally forgot to say, like when you said that with, with a coach, it's somebody that like for you, for me, you're a business coach, right? You see so many things that I don't see at all.
and I'm like completely unaware. And then you're normalizing certain things for me. You were on the phone with me when I had my breakdown over a mistake I made and you reminded me of things and you're seeing things that I can't, right? Because I didn't, you went through it already so you can guide me and help me. The same thing for me with grief. Like I've experienced all those things I know they're going to go through. So it's nice to also remind the person, this is normal, this will happen, this may happen for you, it may look like this.
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If it doesn't, that's also okay. It may look like that. And immediately I hear, my God, thank you. I didn't know that. I didn't know that was normal. I get those DMs, Gary, all the time. Like thanking me for normalizing something for them that everyone is telling them is not okay. So that this guide really stems from that, like to just give validation and information and knowledge and compassion and support for all those things you have no idea about until you do. Yeah.
So beautiful. Yeah, if you if you you should definitely go get it. I'll put a link on it in the show notes so that you can access that. But it's a really, it's a really powerful guide and there's so much great content there. You know, that wrap up, I think one of the resources that I feel people often refer to when it comes to grief is like the five stages of grief. What's your thoughts on that? And I'm curious, like is that
Do you find that framework helpful, not helpful? You know, I didn't. Thank you for saying that. I realized after, like, I want to say a year of being into my grief journey that there really aren't any stages to grief, that the stages are more for the person dying. And it's like Elizabeth Kubler-Ross wrote that for the person that's terminally ill to come to terms with their own illness and their death and.
Certainly the griever goes through denial and bargaining and anger and depression, all the things, but those are not the stages. Like if anything, if grief had stages, it would have like 305. You know, so that's, that's also something I mentioned in the, in the guide, because a lot of grievers say, well, I, I've gone through all that, but I'm still grieving and it's not over. I feel so yeah, the five stages were really meant to, to help.
the dying person come to terms with their own death and everything else, but not for the griever. Got it. So yeah. Okay. Well, my love, I, you know, just thank you for coming here and sharing your story. And I think you are one of the kindest, sweetest people in the world. You're the love that you have for people and
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the commitment that you have, like you are a walking, bleeding heart in the best possible way and the difference that you make for your clients and the people who follow you on your social media is palpable. I love how you get just all these messages every day from people who are saying thank you and you're doing fantastic work and.
And I know that it's not easy work all the time, right? It's not easy to launch a business and do all the things to do a business, but it's also not easy to take on work that there's such a heavy responsibility to people. So I just thank you and I honor you. And I know Tony is so freaking proud of you. So freaking proud of you.
Thank you. Thank you over there going like, that's my girl, yes. That's exactly what he would say, I swear. Thank you so much, Gary. Thank you for having me. Thank you for your time. I love chatting with you. And thank you for all of your help and all the amazing work that you're doing because all the wonderful positive changes in my business on the business end of things are all thanks to you. And we're just getting started. So we are so much. are.
Okay, if you have questions, if you're dealing with grief, reach out to Catherine. You know, have a conversation. Don't try to do this alone. You don't have to. You deserve to be supported and held during the most difficult time of your life. So I will give you her contact information. What's your website just for people? So it's grief embraced with love. You can find me on Instagram or on TikTok under that handle. Yes. All right, my love.
Big hug to you. you. I don't have a great deal of experience with losing a loved one like Catherine did. I can't even begin to imagine what that would feel like. So I don't want to give a great deal of advice here like I normally do. What I do want to say is I'm sorry. I'm sorry that you have lost your loved one and it's incredibly unfair.
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and you have the right to feel however you are feeling for as long as you need to feel it. This is your process and no one gets to tell you how to go about it. No one. With that said, my wish, my prayer for you is that when you are ready, that you seek some support, that you seek community and seek some help. This is probably the loneliest experience that you will ever have in your life, but you don't have to do it alone.
I'll see you next week.
Thanks for listening to this episode of The Ownership Game with your host, Gary Montalvo. Make sure to like and comment on your favorite podcast platform, as well as subscribe so that you never miss an episode.