Break Free from Financial Stress: A New Approach to Money with Kelsa Dickey
2025-02-11
Transcript
Kelsa Dickey - 0:00:00
A lot of times people think that managing your money takes time and energy, and it actually frees you of a lot of time and energy. And from what I have just sort of noticed over the years is the trajectory of your progress is determined less by the financial numbers and more by the buy in, how you feel. Because if you are more bought in, you’re going to be way more creative, you’re going to be a better problem solver, you’re going to be more dedicated.
Kelsa Dickey - 0:00:22
Just all of the things that are actually needed when it comes to managing our money and making really smart financial decisions, all of those skills, you’re able to acquire them faster when you feel excited about it. There is no goal in life where money can be used as a tool to speed up your progress.
Gary Montalvo - 0:00:48
Welcome to the Ownership Game with Gary Montalvo.
Gary Montalvo - 0:00:52
What would it take to get into.
Gary Montalvo - 0:00:54
The driver’s seat of your life and leave your mark? The ownership game starts now. Hello, friends, and welcome back to the Ownership Game. That’s right, I’m back. Hopefully you missed me because I definitely missed you guys. I’m so excited to be kicking off season two with a topic that impacts our everyday lives, and that is money. More specifically, what’s your relationship with money? For many of us, money, we see it as a means of freedom, creating these aspirational lives, the stuff that dreams are made of, right?
0:01:35 Gary Montalvo: But more often than not, the word money conjures up feelings of stress, helplessness, even guilt and shame. Money isn’t just a number. It’s a story. A story shaped by our past, our beliefs, and often our fears. In today’s episode, we’re going to take the first step towards rewriting that story. My guest today is Kelsa Dickey. She’s a financial coach who’s redefining what it means to take control of your finances.
Gary Montalvo - 0:02:05
Her philosophy is different. Budgeting isn’t about deprivation or rigid rules. It’s about aligning your financial habits with your values and the life you truly want to live. This isn’t going to be your typical budget and save conversation. We’re going to dive into why most financial advice fails to stick. How to overcome the shame and avoidance that so many of us feel around money and the small and powerful steps that you can take to move from financial survival to financial empowerment.
Gary Montalvo - 0:02:40
If you’ve ever felt like your relationship with money is holding you back, or if you know that it’s time to start thinking differently about how you spend, how you save, and how you invest in yourself, this is the episode that’s going to change your life. Kelsa, I am so excited that we’re finally getting to do this. I’ve been wanting to do episode about money and finances and money mindset for a really long time, and I just didn’t find someone that.
Gary Montalvo - 0:03:17
That gels that. That creates, like, the safety around it that you do and the, in the end, the transparency around it that you do. So I’m really excited to talk to you because I feel like this is one of those things that so many people struggle with and. And they’re, like, in the closet about it. Right. Like, it’s like they avoid it. They don’t touch it. They don’t. There’s shame around it. There’s guilt around it. We don’t really. We’re not really taught this stuff in school.
Gary Montalvo - 0:03:44
Like, I don’t remember having any, like, literacy around money. And, you know, my parents are immigrants from Dominican Republic, so my, like, money for us was like, you put it under the mattress and you’d save it for, like, an emergency because you never knew. And that was like, you know, the.
Kelsa Dickey - 0:04:02
Extent of our money training, the mattress strategy. I totally get it. Yep.
Gary Montalvo - 0:04:07
So I’m really excited to talk to you because I think that a lot of people can resonate with that. And I guess I want to start with how were we always, like, passionate about money? How did this. How did it happen? Because this is something that typically scares people, and you’re, like, the champion of it.
Kelsa Dickey - 0:04:27
Yeah. You know, I have always been financially savvy or financially minded, but I will say that it came from sort of observing how not to do it. Growing up, we didn’t have a lot of money. I was raised by a single mom who was truly doing her best, had a good job. She was a social worker for the state of Michigan, worked really hard, but was raising three girls on her own and really just didn’t know. Same as you. Didn’t learn how to do it. Didn’t have the skills. Didn’t have someone to sit her down and help her. And I remember the day that she filed bankruptcy and I was in middle school. I, of course, didn’t know what bankruptcy meant at the time, but I remember my aunt, my mom’s sister coming over who lived right down the street, and she walked in the door, and they sort of embraced. They were hugging. My mom was crying, and my aunt was like, saying, it’s gonna be okay. It’s gonna be okay. And my mom had said, like, I had to file bankruptcy. And I just remember her being so sad. About it and realizing that money was impacting my mom’s life almost every single day. I can remember going out to eat as a family and her not being present in that moment because she was worried about how am I gonna make my car payment next week or something like that. And I think that sort of taught me that money is important.
Kelsa Dickey - 0:05:36
But my mom was also a social worker, and so I’ve always had a level of empathy. And that I think is oftentimes ignored in a financial space because it’s like, well, it’s numbers and it’s data and it’s a mathematical calculation. And look at what this spreadsheet shows you. And it’s like, yeah, but what about the emotional side of money, right? Like what, what makes people tick? What gets people excited about money?
Kelsa Dickey - 0:05:56
And so I just married those two things. I actually started as a financial advisor, fully licensed, right after college, and absolutely hated it because it really wasn’t the part of money that even my mom was struggling with. Right? That’s not what I was helping people with every day. And so a client would come in and they would, you know, need help with asset allocation or rebalancing their accounts or figuring out like, which car do I, excuse me, which account do I pull from in order to buy a car?
Kelsa Dickey - 0:06:20
And it would be like, so boring. And I’d be like, okay, wah, wah, you know, and then another client would come in and they’d be like, I’m in debt and I don’t know what to do. And I’d be like, yes, let’s like roll up our sleeves, let’s get to work kind of thing. And I just loved it. And that’s when I left financial advising with this idea of like, I just want to help people with the day to day part of their money. The money that’s coming in and out of their checking account right now, the money they have sitting in there, should they spend it, should they save it?
Kelsa Dickey - 0:06:45
And if they should spend it, what should they be spending it on? Like, what is going to make their life most fulfilling, right? Like, not just about financial progress, but financial progress and fulfillment at the same time. And then also, if they should be saving it, how should they be saving it? What kind of count, what should that money be used for? And those types of things. And so my business now is 16 years old.
Kelsa Dickey - 0:07:05
I’ve been doing this for a very long time, and I can honestly say that I love it more today than I did, you know, 16 years ago, just because I feel like I’ve truly found my craft. And I know, you know, I don’t doubt my abilities anymore to genuinely help people and get them really great results.
Gary Montalvo - 0:07:20
You said, you said a couple really interesting things that I want to circle back the, this idea of marrying empathy with the spreadsheet, right? Because I do think part of the friction is that many of the people that have this skill set are probably more task oriented people and it probably comes to them very easy. And so there is a lack of like, not just empathy but like almost like, what’s wrong with you? This is so easy. Why don’t you get this? Like you just like, do you know what I mean? Like this.
Kelsa Dickey - 0:07:56
I’ll tell you what, I’ll tell you, Gary. Listen, I attend a lot of, I mean just in the past couple of weeks I’ve attended a Women in Finance and Accounting meeting. I’ve attended an economics roundtable that was all a discussion about sort of marketplace changes that are coming and those types of things. So I’m surrounded by financial people and I love them. And also I’m sort of like, sometimes I’m just like, can we like pull you out of the spreadsheet for just a minute, please? Like there is such an element to this that is more important or equally important maybe is the, is maybe the way to say it. So I think one thing that I figured out really early on in my business that has helped sort of propel it forward is the most important thing, the truly the most important thing when it comes to a person’s financial progress is their buy in.
Kelsa Dickey - 0:08:40
So when we are sitting down with somebody and we’re looking at what changes should you make, where do you stand right now, what goal do you have and how can we get you there? I could create two different plans on a spreadsheet, right? And one of them looks like it’s going to happen really fast. It’s going to save them a lot of money. It’s going to be sort of like the best case scenario financially, let’s say, right?
Kelsa Dickey - 0:08:59
But in order to achieve that result, they have to live a life that is not sustainable or not something that they actually want to do, right? They have to make changes or sacrifices that maybe are not in alignment with their value system. But if there’s a second option that maybe doesn’t get them the financial result as quickly, but it still achieves the result. But the changes that they make, they can see themselves truly making it. They’re like that I can stick with that. Feels good to me.
Kelsa Dickey - 0:09:27
That gets them excited. That is their buy in and from what I have just sort of noticed over the years is the trajectory of your progress is determined less by the financial numbers and more by the buy in how you feel. Because if you are more bought in, you’re going to be way more creative, you’re going to be a better problem solver, you’re going to be more dedicated. Just all of the things that are actually needed when it comes to managing our money and making really smart financial decisions, all of those skills, you’re able to acquire them faster when you feel excited about it.
Kelsa Dickey - 0:09:57
So that’s really what we lean into.
Gary Montalvo - 0:09:58
That’s one of the distinctions that I use a lot with my clients in terms of coaching as well. It’s like you can create these very lofty goals, but if, if the moment that you hesitate in that that’s possible, we’ve lost you, right? So it’s much more effective to create something that’s, I rather set a much more reasonable quote, unquote, like whatever that means, but like something that you can get that buy in because you’re going to absolutely 100% perform better.
Kelsa Dickey - 0:10:24
When you mean speaking just to kind of like touch on that a little bit. If, if just for the, your people who are listening right now, I think this could be a really good exercise is especially you touched on it. When it comes to money, there’s a lot of shame, there’s a lot of self doubt, there’s a lot of beliefs of like I’ll never be good at that I’m bad with money, all of that. So I want a person to just think for a moment and answer the question. It would be nice if.
Kelsa Dickey - 0:10:47
It would be nice if what? And this does not have to be a financial goal at all. It could be. It would be nice if I got in shape. It would be nice if I could redecorate this room in my house. It would be nice if I could enroll my kid in this sport that they want to play. Or it would be nice if I could buy a new car, right? Like what? Just finish that sentence and whatever that is. One of the reasons I love what I do so much is because it does not matter what goal a person has in life.
Kelsa Dickey - 0:11:12
Managing your money better will help you achieve that goal faster. There is no goal in life where money can be used as a tool to speed up your progress, right? So if it’s somebody who wants to get in shape, the ability to buy organic fruits and vegetables or really, you know, do meal prepping or buy more meat or like those types of things can speed up the progress. The ability to, you know, pay for a health coach or a personal trainer or a gym membership, the ability to go to a doctor and get your labs done, all those types of things.
Kelsa Dickey - 0:11:42
Money is simply a tool to help you achieve your goals faster. And it doesn’t matter what goal you have in life. Chances are money can help with that. And so that first goal that you have, I actually recommend for a lot of our clients, don’t attach it to money. Don’t have it be about like, I want $5,000 in savings or I want to pay off my car. Have it be something that is so tangible to you, that is really important in your life, something that you do feel confident in. Right. An area of your life where you feel confident and then use that as your motivator to manage your money better.
Gary Montalvo - 0:12:13
Yeah. Well, you’re. You’re. You keep circling back to this idea that. It was one of the things I wanted to circle back on. It was this idea that this process is for that. That you having a fulfilled life is one of the goals. Right. That you having. Because I think that often when people think about this topic, they think of it as, like, depriving themselves or that they have to deprive themselves on such a level.
Gary Montalvo - 0:12:47
And I think it’s one of the reasons they avoid it, because it’s like, okay, in order for me to have whatever I want, I’m gonna have to eat ramen noodle for every. You know, I don’t want to do that. So. And you’re actually saying that we start the conversation, we start the planning from this place of what would fulfill you, right? What would be something that would, you know, excite you in life? That. That. So life worth living, right? That’s the point, right? If money’s a tool, then what would be a life worth living? So I really.
Gary Montalvo - 0:13:18
Because, you know. Because, you know, what’s the other thing? I grew up with a mindset that money was very much a tool of survival, you know, because similar to you, I’m a single mom raising me. You know, we lived in Dominican Republic for the first, you know, six years of my life. And so you’re literally like, you know, it’s like, every penny counts. Like, literally every penny counts, right? And I remember my mother counting every penny every month.
Gary Montalvo - 0:13:49
And so, you know, money was never something that you did to, like, get fulfillment. Money was something you did to keep a roof over your house, to. To make sure that you eat, like, the basics, right? The. The. The fundamental basics. Make sure that your school’s paid for. Make sure that. And so the, the idea of even using money as like a tool for, you know, like traveling or getting a massage or things that enrich your life in whatever way is something that I had to really step into, in dismantle for myself because as I, when I became an entrepreneur, especially that, that, you know, your money conversations really get in the mix of, of of how you run your business and your sales conversations and all that.
Gary Montalvo - 0:14:35
I really discovered that I’m like, wait, I don’t like my, my relationship with money is very like, transactional in terms of like, make sure you have food, make sure you have clothes, make sure.
Kelsa Dickey - 0:14:49
Yeah. And, you know, I, I want to acknowledge that that is a lot of people feel that way. And it’s not entirely your fault for feeling that way or the way you were raised or your circumstances. It is a very pervasive problem because the way even financial experts talk about money, I mean, if you think about the financial advice that we’re sort of inundated with all the time, avoid your coffee, don’t go through the, you know, drive through at the coffee shop or eat as, you know, rice and beans or whatever the case may be, don’t spend it. Is this mindset that saving spending as little as possible is, is the way to go, that that is the right answer? There is this mindset.
Kelsa Dickey - 0:15:27
The way money is talked about in general is very rudimentary, right? It is very like plus and minus that if you spend money, you lose money is sort of the idea. But if we could think about it as like, what is the ROI on my life? What is the return on investment of my life satisfaction, right? Does this make me healthier? And one thing that a person can do is really think about, like, what is most important to me, what value system do I want to live by, right? And we can all have a lot of things that are important to us. But if we could sort of think about what are the three to five things that I value most? And if I could just prioritize these three or five things, I want to put as much of my money behind them as possible.
Kelsa Dickey - 0:16:09
Because that’s really where, you know, I do believe that maybe we can’t have everything we want and more all the time when it comes to money. Like, I want to be realistic, I want to have a very grounded conversation about money too, that we can’t just go and spend whatever we want either. And it really comes down to prioritizing the things that are most important to us. And then when we can Add in the other things, it becomes that much sweeter.
Kelsa Dickey - 0:16:32
Right? But that value system can be travel, right. It can be our well being or our health or our mental health. I know for me, one of my values is creativity. My ability to express creatively is very important to me. And I have found that if I set myself up, I’ll sometimes just go get a hotel room someplace in a place that has like good energy, right. And I will write because I love writing about what I do. And so I’ll just sit there and I’ll write. And that to me is an expression of my creativity. It is worth it to me to invest in my creativity if that. I have found that even though I can’t say I spent, you know, $150 on this hotel stay, I made $150 the next day from it. I can’t tell you that, but I can tell you more in a, in a general way that it has added to my life in infinite, infinite ways, if that makes sense. So one example of a value system that most people have, I would say is family.
Kelsa Dickey - 0:17:28
And that can be sort of the family you were born with or the family you choose, right. So it doesn’t necessarily have to be, you know, like your direct family. And you know, ask yourself, like, if I were to put more of my money towards that value of mine, what would that look like? Would it be spending more quality time together? Would it be, you know, going places together or, you know, how can I put more of my money behind that? And it really does reframe as far as like I’m spending money to, I’m investing in the things that are most important to me.
Gary Montalvo - 0:17:57
Yeah, I want to play devil’s advocate with you for a bit because I feel like, you know, the economy right now is a real sore topic for a lot of people. I think a lot of people are struggling financially, trying to figure out how to just, you know, make it month to month. And, and then we’re talking about, well, saving it will save and debt. And it seems I can, I can, I can see how some people would just feel like it’s hopeless.
Kelsa Dickey - 0:18:28
Totally.
Gary Montalvo - 0:18:29
And how do you, like, what advice would you have for somebody in that situation because you want them to be able to get in the game, but they’re like, yes, treading water, you know.
Kelsa Dickey - 0:18:41
This is super important and I’m so glad. I don’t actually consider you playing devil’s advocate at all. I love this conversation. So thank you for bringing it up. If you are have a life situation where Money is extremely tight. And I don’t mean like there is a saying, just, you know, this is statistic, excuse me, is that, you know, 77% of people live paycheck to paycheck and 42% of top earners, which is defined as a person who earns $100,000 or more per year.
Kelsa Dickey - 0:19:15
Those people also live paycheck to paycheck. And then it’s like 36% of super earners. And a super earner is defined as somebody who earns over $250,000 per year. So 36% of those individual define themselves as living paycheck to paycheck. But I, I would actually poke holes in that statistic because I think if you’re paying for vacations and you’re getting Christmas gifts and you’re paying for your house to get decorated around the holidays and all of that.
Kelsa Dickey - 0:19:39
And yes, money is tight because you’re doing all of those things that is not living paycheck to paycheck. Living paycheck to paycheck. And I think in a real, in a real sense is my bills are paid, I barely have enough for groceries and gas. And that’s if I manage it like perfectly and I don’t overspend on anything. And anytime one random thing comes up, I’m sort of calculating in my head of like, how can I skimp and save in order to pay for that one thing that to me is truly living paycheck to paycheck. And the reality is, is we have way too many people in our world, in our country who are feeling that way right now. Absolutely.
Kelsa Dickey - 0:20:15
When, if that is you, the way you manage your money is your greatest asset right now. So what I mean by that is we have to have a system for planning ahead with your money. So seeing a couple of paychecks out, seeing what one time bills are coming so you can get ahead of them. So your annual car registration, for example, right. If you are truly living paycheck to paycheck, something as basic as registration or tabs for your car once a year is the biggest hit, right? Like we’re not talking about how can I pay for vacations once a year, we’re talking about keeping my car on the road so that I can get to and from a job. Right?
Kelsa Dickey - 0:20:53
That is a really big deal. We need to have a system for planning ahead with your money. And I know I don’t want to minimize the here and now, but what we need to be able to do is remove as much of the chaos as possible. So that we’re not reacting as much. We need to shift from a reactionary position to one that is just slightly more proactive. And the reason this is so important is what that allows us to do is free our mind of the constant worrying that we’re doing about money. Because when we are truly living paycheck to paycheck, we’re in a very reactionary mindset. We are thinking about money all of the time because it’s this.
Kelsa Dickey - 0:21:34
This lifestyle of survival, right? And what we need to be able to do is free up our mental energy by saying, I know where I stand right now. I know where I’ll be two weeks from now, and I know what’s coming in and out two weeks from now, four weeks from now, that kind of thing. And there is a way to do that. We can certainly dive into that if you want, or people can reach out to me if they hear this episode and just we can talk about it. This is sort of one of my.
Kelsa Dickey - 0:21:58
My strengths that I help people set up is a way of seeing your money into the future. And I mean immediately into the future. I’m not talking about 25 years later when you retire. I’m talking about, like the bills that are coming out two weeks from now, four weeks from now, and how that connects to the here and now. We need to be able to see that because that releases the immediate urgency of pressure that we’re feeling constantly that’s consuming all of our thoughts.
Kelsa Dickey - 0:22:20
When we do that, this is where we’re able to then shift our focus to generating more income. Thinking about ways that we can drive our income, whether that’s starting a side hustle, starting a new business, selling something. We can actually shift from survival mode into generating different wealth tools, whether that’s. Usually it’s an income factor first. We probably have to. Most people don’t have an expense problem, is my observation.
Kelsa Dickey - 0:22:50
They’re spending as little as possible already. What we need to shift to is more wealth generating steps, driving your income, and then making the most of that income. And it might be that for a little while. It’s still tight, but it’s tight in a productive way. We’re actually driving things. We’re able to invest in the future so that we can then generate income in a more passive way, if that makes sense.
Gary Montalvo - 0:23:12
It makes sense. And I just want to acknowledge it because I love that the way that you’re speaking about this is. Is how. It’s how I would coach it from a mindset perspective as well. You know, when the, like, I Always. I always tell my clients it’s like when they’re overwhelmed, it’s like the first thing you got to do is like put it on paper. Because when your brain cannot overwhelm as a result of your brain not understanding what the game is, what are all the pieces and how we’re going to get there, so your brain just starts freaking out.
Gary Montalvo - 0:23:43
But when you, when you write it on paper and create some predictability around it, your brain relaxes and then you can kind of get to work on the creative side of stuff.
Kelsa Dickey - 0:23:53
That’s exactly it. It is so hard to creatively solve a problem if we’re in emergency mode. Right. Or if we’re in survival mode. So by seeing it at least a short period into the future and saying, I have some breathing room, I know I’m okay. Yes, it’s tight, but I’ve been living my life tight for a very long time. A lot of times people have. Right. So that part’s not unique to them. We just need to plan it out a little bit better so they can see it better, get it on paper, like you were saying. And this is, can truly just be on a sheet of paper. This does not need to be anything elaborate. You don’t need to download an app or anything like that.
Kelsa Dickey - 0:24:27
If a person just takes their paycheck and says, here’s what my paycheck is, here’s exactly what’s coming out of it, here’s how much I need for food and here’s some one time expenses that are coming up that I want to put a little bit aside for maybe it’s $10 into that car registration account or something like that. That way when that bill comes and it’s a couple hundred dollars, we’re not completely shocked by it. Right.
Kelsa Dickey - 0:24:50
And if we do that for two, three, four pay periods out, it removes it from your brain and it gives you a feeling of control of like, I can see this, I’m in control of it. And then it frees up all of that, you know, energy where we’re responding all the time to go towards more creative long term problem solving. Right. Which is like now, now that I’m ahead of it for the next four pay periods, now how can I get ahead of it for next year? So I’m not feeling this way a year from now.
Gary Montalvo - 0:25:15
Yeah. And what I love about this strategy is one of the things that happens is you, you know, human beings like to avoid. That’s one of the ways we survive and resist. We avoid. And I think, you know, money is one of those things you always hear other stories of. I’ve definitely been there at times in my life where the, the credit card bills come in and you just don’t even open them, right? They’re just there stacking up and you don’t even, you know, you wouldn’t look at it, like, out of sight, out of mind.
Gary Montalvo - 0:25:43
And obviously that doesn’t work. But the other thing that happens when you’re doing that is that you now start to walk around the world like someone who avoids and someone who is not dealing with their life. And so it really robs you of your power. You can’t be powerful in other areas of your life. Like, you can’t, you can’t, you know, go to work every day or go into your, you know, have a sales conversation if you’re entrepreneur and say, hey, trust me, buy my product.
Gary Montalvo - 0:26:14
When you’re like, avoiding all this stuff. And so what I love about what you’re really putting forth is that part of the transformation is just really putting it on paper, right? Like really looking at this information and not running away from it. And, and, and, and, you know, having an honest conversation with yourself about where you are and what needs to happen.
Kelsa Dickey - 0:26:35
I think you hit the nail on the head about the transformation when you said the word trust. I truly feel it is, you know, what you’re describing. We’re avoiding it because we don’t trust that we either have the knowledge or the skills or the ability to fix it or do something about it. And so it’s easier to avoid it. Right. I think one of the greatest moments for me in a client’s coaching journey is at first, when we’re first starting, they’ll ask my permission for a lot of things.
Kelsa Dickey - 0:27:03
Can I do this? Did I do this right? They sort of want me to tell them how to do everything right. And I get it. It’s coming from, like, they don’t trust themselves with money and they’re sort of needing me to, you know, build that trust. But then my favorite moment is when they come to a coaching session and they say, so this came up, here’s what I did. And I just wanted to let you know, they’re not asking for permission, they’re not asking how to.
Kelsa Dickey - 0:27:29
And they sort of talk about, in a way of like, I know I did this right, or at least the best that I knew, and the level of self trust that it forms. I always say that we can’t control sort of everything that will happen to you, but can we trust that our ability to Handle it, is there? And whether that’s financially, mentally, emotionally, all of that. And there’s no doubt in my mind that when someone’s car breaks down, that is inconvenient oftentimes. Right. Like, we’re worried about getting the kids to and from school, or we’re worried about getting to or from our job or anything like that.
Kelsa Dickey - 0:28:01
We don’t want the added stress of. Now, how am I going to pay for this? And what ripple effect is that going to create? And what else am I not gonna be able to pay for? Because I had this pop up. Right. It just adds to the level of stress that we’re all already feeling just living life sometimes. You know? And that’s why I think managing your money, let that be the motivator, is that that is. It doesn’t have to be that way. I think that is one of the things that I wanna just remind people of is that it can be easier.
Kelsa Dickey - 0:28:29
It can feel really good and manag. It doesn’t have to look like knowing where every single dollar goes. And it doesn’t have to look like sitting. I know my mom would sit at our kitchen table for hours sometimes and she would have a stack of mail that was opened. She would have a stack of unopened mail. So those envelopes that you’re talking about that she had been avoiding, she’d have, like a legal pad in front of her. There’d be a calculator.
Kelsa Dickey - 0:28:53
And she would sit there for hours, sort of like trying to manage her money and try to figure out, like, how does she get ahead of it? And I just remember seeing. The word I like to use to describe it is still so vivid to me till this day. And this was, you know, 30 years ago. But is despair. She truly felt despair. And. But I remember her thinking that she. Or believing that she had to sit there for hours in order to figure it out. And it doesn’t have to be that way. It doesn’t have to be hard.
Kelsa Dickey - 0:29:23
It doesn’t have to be, like, really cumbersome. There’s this thought of, like, if I manage my money, I gotta sit down. It’s gonna be really cumbersome. It doesn’t have to be that way. It can be something that is much easier than that.
Gary Montalvo - 0:29:33
Yeah. And you might need to learn some stuff. You might need to, you know, work with someone like Kelso. And that might be a crazy investment. But if it gives you peace of mind and it gives you the tools to do that. Because very often we feel like we have to do it on our own. Like, we have to push through and suffer it. And the shame also keeps us suffering in. In silence. But there are resources out there to support you. And yeah, you may not be able to afford the resources, but you can work towards that. And then once you have that, you’re going to have so much more peace of mind and power to deal with this situation.
Gary Montalvo - 0:30:11
I wanted to ask you, we’ve been kind of talking about this, but I want to come at it a little bit more directly. What are some of the common pitfalls that you see? Like, if someone is, you know, getting inspired in this conversation and they’re like, okay, I realize that, you know, I’m gonna do this. I’m gonna take this on. What are some of the common mistakes that you see people make in this situation?
Kelsa Dickey - 0:30:34
First pitfall is they download an app where they track where every penny goes and they categorize all their spending in different categories and that sort of thing. And the reason that we have observed that that is a major pitfall is one, you spend way too much time and energy learning technology and something that might not actually be in service of your money. Two, you.
Gary Montalvo - 0:31:00
I wish you could see my face right now. If you’re on audio. Like, I’m literally like, what?
Kelsa Dickey - 0:31:06
You’re like, I was just about to go do that. I was just about to hang up and do that.
Gary Montalvo - 0:31:10
I just feel like that’s so where people go now. It’s like, download an app and you know, okay, got it. All right. Yeah, makes sense.
Kelsa Dickey - 0:31:19
The reason that I think, one, it’s because it’s a time suck and you’re learning a new app and you’re messing around in there and like, all that kind of stuff. But even more importantly than that, it is. You are only looking at your past. You’re categorizing expenses for money you have already spent. There is nothing you can do about that decision. It has already been in your past. Like I was saying before, the best thing that a person can do is start thinking about their money in the future.
Kelsa Dickey - 0:31:50
Even that is in the next week or two, right? Or the next two pay periods. I promise you that is much more productive and gives you a sense of control and helps you to see where you’re going with your money. If you download an app and you spend all this time categorizing and then it tells you, last month you went over budget by however much money on eating out, you can do nothing about that. There is nothing you can do about that.
Kelsa Dickey - 0:32:14
And all it tends to do for Our clients, because we ask our clients when they first come to us, like, what have you tried? Right? What are the, some of the things you’ve tried before? And what, what did you think of that? Because we don’t want to have someone try something that they’ve already tried and it didn’t work for them. And all too often they say, well, I downloaded an app and I tried it. Spent all this time categorizing my money, but then I found I would update it once a month and I would just feel worse about myself because it would, that is when they would see after they spent the money that they had gone over budget.
Kelsa Dickey - 0:32:43
Right. And so it kind of creates this vicious cycle of feeling like you’re being productive, feeling like you’re doing something right, but having it not actually get you any results, it doesn’t actually make you any more money, doesn’t give you any more clarity, and it just makes you feel worse. And so it creates this vicious cycle of. I think it ends up making a person feel as if, like, see, I knew it. I knew I couldn’t do this. See, I knew that I was going to be bad at this too. This, here’s this other tool that everyone says will work. And this didn’t work for me either because I’m so bad at this.
Kelsa Dickey - 0:33:11
Right. It just is like one more sort of check in that box which we want to eliminate.
Gary Montalvo - 0:33:16
Okay, okay, got it.
Kelsa Dickey - 0:33:18
That is number one. Number two is saying like, this is the month I’m going to, you know, make financial progress. And so if you have a little bit of extra, you throw it towards your debt. If you have debt and you throw it towards your credit card. Let’s say the reason I say that this is a pitfall is because all too often we have those one time expenses that we actually need to get ready for. And I would rather have a person just pay the minimum payments on their credit cards for a couple of months.
Kelsa Dickey - 0:33:47
And if you have extra money, just hang on to it, hang on to it. Because if you take everything out of your checking account today and it’s extra, so you pay it towards your credit card. So you pay down your credit cards. You’re feeling elated, you’re like, I’m doing this, I’m so excited. Go me. And then let’s say this weekend your car breaks down, how are you going to pay for that car repair bill? It’s going to go right back on the credit card, right?
Kelsa Dickey - 0:34:10
So now emotionally, I want to you to imagine what we just created is I’m Doing this, I’m getting ahead. I’m so proud of myself. Look at me, I’m, you know, paying down my credit card and then a couple days later, it’s like, crap, what was I thinking? I don’t have the money. Here I go again, using my credit card. I’m a mess. Like, it literally creates this emotional cycle of two steps forward, two steps back. And if you do that for enough times, which a lot of people are on that cycle, often they end up just throwing their hands up and being like, forget it, I quit. The same is true for savings.
Kelsa Dickey - 0:34:42
So again, this can be tricky because oftentimes when people first come to us, they don’t trust themselves with money because they think they have a spending problem. And again, most people don’t have a spending problem. Okay? But I would actually rather have you keep that money in your checking account. And if you’re planning ahead with your money, you’re like, I know the next time my paycheck comes in, I should have $200 left in my checking account.
Kelsa Dickey - 0:35:05
I’m going to challenge myself to have that $200 left. Let’s see if I can do it kind of thing. And let’s see what comes up that I might need that money for, for the first few paychecks of doing this. Because if, even if you put it in savings, there is also an emotional guilt that comes from pulling money out of your savings. If people have savings and they take money out of it, they usually feel badly about that instead of feeling like pride of, I had money in savings, I’m so glad, look at me, I’m so, you know, good at this.
Kelsa Dickey - 0:35:34
They end up feeling badly that they did that. So, and the reason for that is often because when we put money in savings, we are told that that money is an emergency fund and should never be touched. Right? So what we have people do and then what happens is then you pull from your savings and you feel like you’ve done something wrong, so you’re bad, right? So by keeping it in your checking account, I want you to prove to yourself that that money can be there. I want, it’s a form of trust building with yourself, if that makes sense. And you’re also allowing yourself to learn, like what kinds of one time things are coming up that I hadn’t thought of when I created this four week plan going forward or two week plan going forward, because we’re all learning as we go, right? These are just important, you know, awareness steps that we’re taking.
Kelsa Dickey - 0:36:16
What we have our clients do, though, when it comes to savings is wait a month or two to keep that money in your checking account, build a little bit of that reserve in your checking account, then form savings buckets for future expenses. So the bank that I personally use for this, I have no affiliation with them, but I just like them, is Ally Bank A L L y dot com. It is an online bank. It links directly to your main checking account wherever you’re already banking. So you’re not going to change over all of your bank. You keep all of that the same, but they allow you to open as many savings accounts as you want. And there’s no minimum balance requirement, there’s no fee for having the accounts.
Kelsa Dickey - 0:36:55
So you can open like a car fund and you can save money for your car insurance if you pay it twice a year, or your car registration tabs that comes once a year. You can open a clothing fund, a travel fund, a medical fund. So if you have to copays or if you have things that you need to pay for out of pocket. And the nice thing about these, even if you can just put 10 bucks into each one that you think you might need, the purpose of this money is to be spent.
Kelsa Dickey - 0:37:23
So when you have to spend the money out of it, you don’t have the guilt associated with taking money out of savings, if that makes sense. So we always start there. So we start by planning ahead first and just getting aware of, like becoming proactive, trusting the plan that you’re creating and seeing your money clearly into the future. That gives you a sense of control and peace. Then we start saving for upcoming expenses, things that don’t happen every month, but when they happen, they tend to happen big. We start putting money aside for those and then we actually start funding goals, whether that’s paying off debt, funding like an emergency savings, which is the kind of savings that’s meant to be there and not be touched, or saving for a down payment on a house or something like that.
Kelsa Dickey - 0:38:06
So we actually want to remove all of that chaos first. It will feel, oftentimes for a lot of our clients, it feels like slower progress initially, but I actually call it true progress. Because what people tend to do is they make this huge step right away. They say, I’m going to manage my money well, I’m going to put money in savings or I’m going to pay down my debt. And then the next month they reverse course.
Kelsa Dickey - 0:38:27
And again that that creates sort of an emotional roller coaster that we want to stop. What we’re doing is we’re removing the drama. I always say if managing your money is boring, that’s a beautiful thing. Like, that is a really good thing. Where we want the part of money that should be fun is when we get extra money. We’re like, what do I want to do with it? What goal do I want to fund? What do I want to do for my future? Like, that’s where money should become really fun.
Kelsa Dickey - 0:38:49
But we want to create a system where the roller coaster ride of finances of, like, oh, my God, I got this, my car registration bill. Now I don’t have the money. And, like, I’m reacting to that. We want to remove all of that, and these steps help to do that, if that makes sense.
Gary Montalvo - 0:39:05
So good, so good. So, so, so, so, so good. I want to make sure that if you’re listening, you also understand. I mean, Kelsey, I’m sure you’re going to back me up here, but there. There is something to be said about this being a practice and, and that, like, any practice, when you first start, it’s going to feel awkward and not natural and clunky and, you know, like, you’re like, just poking your eyes out type of thing.
Gary Montalvo - 0:39:40
And a lot of us, you know, I want to say, so I have adhd. I’m also a creative type, you know, and my automatic was to not really dive into these conversations, avoid them and all of that. And. But I have mastery around it now because I started to take the approach, okay, how can I learn this? How do I need to organize this information? How do I need to color code this information so that my brain pays attention to it?
Gary Montalvo - 0:40:20
I started to have, you know, when I walked into business meetings, I would say, okay, you got 30 minutes. This is about as much as my brain can focus on this. So let’s. Let’s go. So I just want to make sure that if this is stuff that’s like, quote, unquote, hard for you, if you have, like, a squirrely brain like me, it’s absolutely okay. And you can still do this work. You just have to have a little more patience with yourself and really approach it from, how can you make this work for you?
Gary Montalvo - 0:40:52
Right? Like, how can you find the path here for yourself?
Kelsa Dickey - 0:40:55
I totally agree. And I do think change often happens in small ways that that’s most sustainable for people, right? So these are all steps that you can take, but you can take one of them now, you can take one of them the next month, right? So it’s. It’s all about those baby steps. I. I would say if I could break this down for somebody in a really practical, realistic, step by step way. The first thing that I would tell someone to do is make a list of your bills, but put it in due date order.
Kelsa Dickey - 0:41:21
Due date order. The reason for that is like if you get paid and it’s the 14th of the month, I want you to be able to see what is everything that needs to get paid in the next two weeks. And if it’s in due date order, it is a glance, it is just here’s the four bills that are coming out before 28th of the month when my next paycheck comes in, right. Even if that is the only. And if you can do that, but plan out like multiple paychecks out, you know, where you can just write it down on a sheet of paper.
Kelsa Dickey - 0:41:47
That step alone will give people just an awareness that they currently don’t have or an awareness that’s probably currently in their brain. And we want to get it out of their brain, right? So getting that written out on paper and putting it in due date order, the next step that a person can do is I really do like a bucket system because this makes it so that you don’t have to track anything, you don’t have to use a spreadsheet, you don’t have to use an app or anything like that.
Kelsa Dickey - 0:42:14
So for a lot of our clients we have, they have one main checking account where their paycheck comes in and the bills come out of that. And we know always out of which paycheck, which bills are coming out because it’s in due date order. Then we have a second checking account called their spending checking account on payday. And you can set this up as automatic where it’s an automatic transfer from your main checking account to your spending checking account.
Kelsa Dickey - 0:42:37
So these are for things that are like your, your day to day spending. So eating out groceries, getting coffee, putting gas in your car. Think about it like point of sale transaction type things, right? Maybe your Amazon orders. If on payday you transfer money into your spending checking account, that is the account you use during those two weeks to spend from. You don’t have to track it, you don’t have to say here’s how much went to restaurants versus the grocery store. None of that matters.
Kelsa Dickey - 0:43:05
As long as what you are spending is out of that account for two weeks and you’re not going over, then you know you’re good. But it gives you that clarity. Gets the money out of your main checking account, if that makes sense. So that you’re not, your brain is going to be able to compartmentalize just by looking at the app on your phone. Oh, here’s how much is in my spending account. I’ve got three days till payday. Yeah, I’ll go out for sushi tonight.
Kelsa Dickey - 0:43:25
Right. That’s no problem. Sort of thing. So again, if you could see that well into the future, it removes 90% of the chaos that most people feel financially. Then the other part that we have are those one time expenses. But those one time expenses, if we’ve removed all the other chaos, they’re a lot easier to see, if that makes sense. Because right now we’re reacting to everything. At least most people are. Like you were saying, if you’re in avoidance mode or if you’re sort of just winging it, chances are you are reacting and responding to every part of your financial life and is taking up so much time and energy. A lot of times people think that managing your money takes time and energy and it actually frees you of a lot of time and energy.
Kelsa Dickey - 0:44:09
And so the idea is the goal that you want to get to this. I want to give people a vision, right? Something to sort of anchor themselves to. The vision that I want you to have is it’s payday. You sit down for five minutes, you’re like, here’s the bills that I need to pay and I know what they are because they’re in due date order. My transfer went into my other account. And then you ask yourself, what do I have coming up that I might need to get ahead of?
Kelsa Dickey - 0:44:32
And you. That’s. That’s it. That is literally all you do. And you do that every payday for five minutes. And that is truly. If people could just start right there with that bi weekly habit. It removes so much anxiety and worry. And, you know, am I doing this right? Should I be doing more? Is there other things I should be doing? What else is coming? It gives you such clarity and peace of mind that it makes the next steps so much easier.
Gary Montalvo - 0:45:00
Yeah, but you have to be. It requires you to do the preliminary organizing that you’re talking about, by the way. I just want people to know that’s the system that I use. I have like 27 different bank accounts. I don’t, but I have probably about eight.
Kelsa Dickey - 0:45:16
I was gonna say that sounds very overwhelming to some people, I’m sure.
Gary Montalvo - 0:45:19
No, but I have, you know, the. For my property, the money goes. You know, I have a rental property. It goes in here. The. The spending goes in here. Because I know that I’m not reliable for keeping it all in one account and trying to keep track of it like, that makes my ADHD brain go crazy. So the way that I manage that is I make sure that I create separate buckets. Everything gets moved to the appropriate bucket. This gets. My taxes get moved to that bucket, and then I don’t have to figure out, well, how much of this money in my bank account is supposed to be saved for taxes and all of that kind of stuff.
Gary Montalvo - 0:45:54
So.
Kelsa Dickey - 0:45:56
Gives you such insight and clarity into where you stand at any given point.
Gary Montalvo - 0:46:00
And peace of mind for me that I’m not gonna make a mistake, that I’m not gonna overspend, that I’m not gonna like, you know, so it just. It creates guardrails so that I can be free to just go have sushi if I want and know, you know, what I can spend when I’m out.
Kelsa Dickey - 0:46:17
I’m just thinking, Gary, I’ve not had sushi in a while, and I think I need to go out for sushi in, like, the next couple of days. Cause it’s been a little while since I’ve had some, and I really need some. Yeah. And, you know, I love a bucket system because it. It can be set up in a way that is very easy to manage. Very straightforward, very streamlined. It’s not cumbersome. One trick, though, I will say is because there’s no bucket system that sort of works for everybody. So, like, which buckets you need, Gary, as a business owner, are probably different from somebody who’s not, and vice versa.
Kelsa Dickey - 0:46:47
And even, you know, some business owners, if they need to buy equipment every couple of years, they might have an equipment fund. Right. Or an equipment bucket that they’re sort of funding throughout the year. The. The number one trick is having a very clear purpose to the bucket you create. So knowing here’s what this account is for, here’s what can come in and out of it, and these other things do not come in and out of this account.
Gary Montalvo - 0:47:09
Yeah. Love it. Okay, so. So many things I want to talk to you about, but we should be wrapping up soon, I guess. What are your. I mean, you’ve been doing it, but what are your. Your, you know, what’s your last message for people? Your. Your final advice? Your, if you like. This is the one thing you got to know before you.
Kelsa Dickey - 0:47:34
I. Yes, thank you. I wish that the sort of the perspective I want people to adopt is sort of the opposite of what is taught. So that’s why I really want to sort of make this. My point is, money is often taught, is there’s one right way to do it, and every other way is wrong. And what I believe is there is a right way out there for everybody. You just have to discover it for yourself. And I am happy to help people with that, but I believe, you know, everything I do is very customizable. It’s very personable.
Kelsa Dickey - 0:48:06
You know, some people like a level of detail that would really overwhelm other people. Right. Some people want 27 buckets, and some people are like, I just want two. Don’t overwhelm me. Right? Everything with money can be customizable to work for you. And so if you hear somebody say that, like, this way doesn’t work, all that means is it didn’t work for them. That’s all that it means. Right? And we need to. There’s so many constraints around the way money is talked about.
Kelsa Dickey - 0:48:34
And what it has done is it made. Has made people not really lean into their own personality and not really lean into their own strengths and their own skills and the parts that they do well. Really well. Well. And I. I really want people to adopt this mindset of, I just haven’t found my way yet of managing money that will work for me, but it exists, and I’m not going to give up until I find it, because I do genuinely believe that exists for everybody.
Kelsa Dickey - 0:49:01
And I wish money was talked about more from that lens by other financial professionals. So I’ll just start screaming until, you know, into podcasts like this one, Gary, with you. Until people adopt it.
Gary Montalvo - 0:49:12
Any time. Listen, I feel. I feel myself moved hearing you speak, because I just think that this is such a topic that can be so hard for some people, and you’ve really mastered speaking about this in such a way that gives people power and gives people permission and has people be seen. So I’m just. I find myself very grateful that you’re here because I’ve been there and I know how lonely and scary and shameful and all of it, and you’re literally saying everything that I needed to hear in the moment.
Gary Montalvo - 0:49:57
So I just. I think it’s a godsend that you’re here, and I’m so happy that you are sharing your message with people, with my community, because it’s gonna make a big difference. So thank you so much for your time. I know how busy you are.
Kelsa Dickey - 0:50:14
Oh, it was my pleasure. Thank you for having me. And I love talking about this stuff, and I hope, you know, please reach out to me. I actually love engaging with people through emails. I love sending my emails. Like I said, I really enjoy writing about money, but also just behaviors and mindset and goals. That we have goals that my clients have, that kind of thing. So if anybody’d like to join my email list and then engage with me that way, I mean, tell me what you’ve got going on. We like to engage with people back forth. It is truly my pleasure to actually connect with real people with my work. It is my genuine pleasure. And so thank you for giving me the opportunity to do it.
Gary Montalvo - 0:50:47
Absolutely. We’ll put the link to your newsletter and your socials also, because you have a great Instagram. There’s so much great information on your Instagram as well. So definitely go follow Kelsa. You also have some coaching programs. No. Why don’t we just spend a little time talking about that? That.
Kelsa Dickey - 0:51:07
Sure, yeah. So I our program, we really help people one on one with their money. So Fiscal Fitness is the name of my coaching business where we help people one on one. Everything we do is private coaching because it is very customizable and personal. And so that’s that line of my work. But we also mentor other financial coaches because I do believe. I know I’ve talked about a little bit on this podcast, but the. The world of financial coaching. So financial literacy is knowledge, right? So that is learning about money.
Kelsa Dickey - 0:51:38
A financial educator would say knowledge is power. A financial coach is all about the application of that knowledge. So it’s doing something with what you learn. And so I always say applied knowledge is power. So the work that I do with individuals is about teaching them about money, but also figuring out like, what do we want to do about this? How can you take action with this and apply this in a way that will work for you?
Kelsa Dickey - 0:52:00
And it might not work for the next person, but this is where I only got you right here in front of me right now. Right. Like I only care about you. So let’s figure out how you can apply it. And my work with other financial coaches is to help them embrace this mindset that just because the numbers on a spreadsheet makes sense doesn’t mean it’s what’s best for the client. That truly what is best for an individual is whatever is going to help them create momentum in their life and help them feel really good about it. And how do we create that buy in and sort of let go of this idea that like the, the numbers on the spreadsheet matter more than the human being.
Kelsa Dickey - 0:52:33
Right. And so I care a lot about that work. I feel like it is a way that I can influence my profession in a bigger way. I sort of love both of my work. It’s you Know, I get to do both, which I love. And so I mentor other financial coaches and financial professionals as well. I have CPAs, financial advisors who come to me because they want to embrace, you know, more of the compassionate way of speaking with their clients about money.
Gary Montalvo - 0:52:59
So exciting. So exciting. Well, Kelsa, thank you so much. Please be a friend of the show and come back. Okay. Thank you.
Kelsa Dickey - 0:53:06
I would love to. Thanks for having me, Gary.
Gary Montalvo - 0:53:08
My pleasure. This conversation with Kelsa left me thinking deeply about trust, not just in the context of money, but in ourselves. At its core, financial progress isn’t just about spreadsheets or strategies. It’s about learning to trust that we have what it takes to face our challenges, take responsibility, to create change. But when we approach this conversation from a place of shame, fear, and avoidance, well, we end up losing power.
Gary Montalvo - 0:53:41
And more specifically, we lose the opportunity to build clarity, control, and that confidence that we seek. If you take anything away from this conversation, I hope it’s that trust doesn’t come from just getting it right the first time. Trust is built in small steps. Writing things down, creating systems, and being honest with yourself about where you are and where you want to go. Ownership is about engaging with those moments, even when they feel uncomfortable, and proving to yourself that you’re capable of handling what comes next.
Gary Montalvo - 0:54:18
So my question to you today is, where can you lean in when it comes to your money? Where have you been? Avoiding operating in survival. Ask yourself, what’s one step that I can take to bring clarity and power back into the situation, back into my life this evening? Easy work, but it’s necessary. And I think Kelsa showed us today that it’s also possible. Just remember, ownership doesn’t mean having it all figured out. It means choosing to engage, to learn, and to move forward, no matter how small the steps might feel.
Gary Montalvo - 0:54:53
You take that step with all the compassion and care that you need and trusting that each step is bringing you closer and closer to your goals. That is the end of our show. Thank you so much for joining me this week. Thank you for joining me for the premiere episode of season two. If you’re new to the show, welcome. We are so excited to have you. And if you’re a returning listener. Hi. Welcome back home.
Gary Montalvo - 0:55:20
Now, since we’re all family, I’m just gonna come out here and ask you for a favor. Whatever platform you’re on. Can you please, please, please, please click follow or subscribe? And can you please please share this with you know, who needs to hear does an incredible deal to help me with the growth of the show. But more importantly, I think this is a really important message and we all have someone in our lives that could do better with their money.
Gary Montalvo - 0:55:47
Until next time, keep budgeting, keep believing, and keep playing the Ownership Game. Thanks for listening to this episode of the Ownership Game with your host, Gary Montalvo.
Kelsa Dickey - 0:56:02
Make sure to like and comment on.
Gary Montalvo - 0:56:04
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